Morning Walk Conversation
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
October 26, 1975, Mauritius

Prabhupada: So the news was there that Jesus Christ, after crucification, he was alive, and he went to… (aside:) Not so near. And he went to Kashmir. So by the yogic process, in samadhi one can remain alive although superficially he is seen that he is killed. That is possible. Hiranyakasipu did that. He was undergoing tapasya for one hundred years of the demigods. Their duration of time is: our six months, their one day. So such a long time he was undergoing austerity, penance, and thus he became perfect. So his body was practically finished by the earthworm, what is called, moths and ants.

Brahmananda: Because he was standing still?

Prabhupada: Yes. For so many years everything was eaten. Only on the bones were there.

Brahmananda: So he appeared to be dead, but he wasn’t.

Prabhupada: No, he was not dead. He was living on bones. Bones were there. Mean, life is not dependent on this material body. One can practice this by yoga. Without this body he can live. Just like ghost. That is possible.

Brahmananda: Yes, the yogis are able to stop their breathing…

Prabhupada: Yes.

Brahmananda: …and stop their heart beating, and still they are not dead.

Prabhupada: Yes. This is perfection of astanga-yoga, samadhi, to remain in trance. [break] Yes. Actually he was not dead.

Cyavana: He never died.

Prabhupada: Yes. He practiced yoga from India. For twelve years he was there.

Brahmananda: In India. So is that a fact, that he went to India?

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Otherwise how he came to Kashmir? He knew. And when he was in India his mother died. That Aquarian Gospel? Father and mother died.

Brahmananda: In the book that Hamsaduta published, of Christ, Kristos and Krishna, these things are there.

Prabhupada: Yes. It is in the Aquarian Gospel. [Break] Dr. Wolf has said that he cannot accept from Krishna to Krista. Then, by that word, he has proved himself another rascal, because he does not know the Sanskrit way of philology. Sanskrit, there are vargas—ka-varga, ca-varga, ta-varga, ta-varga and pa-varga;—five vargas. So Krsna is in the ta-varga. Ta, tha, da, dha, na. So Krsna, it can be replaced by ta also. (laughter) He does not know that, this rascal. That is the difficulty. These Western rascals, little knowledge, they think very good scholar. That is the difficulty.

Brahmananda: He is very proud.

Prabhupada: Because he has got that doctorate title, so he thinks that he has conquered all over the world. Sapari jala-matrena phora-phoraya. (?) You’ll find some fish, a small—little water: (makes sound) “phrr, phrr, phrr, phrr, phrr, phrr.”

Brahmananda: Making big noise.

Prabhupada: And a big fish, they’ll remain in the middle, whale fish. And a small fish, (makes noise) “phrr, phrr, phrr, phrr, phrr.” Sapari phora phoraya. So he is a small fish. He is thinking that he knows everything. What does he know about these five vargas? Does he know anything? Ka-varga, ca-varga, ta-varga. So ta-varga means ta, tha, da, dha, na. So the na is there. So it can be replaced by ta.

Harikesa: I think he was also the same one who was saying the Aquarian Gospel was just somebody’s dream.

Prabhupada: Yes, but you are also dreaming. Why do you claim that your dream is all right; his dream is wrong? Dreaming is wrong. If his dream is wrong—you are also dreaming—you are also wrong. Why do you claim that your dream is all right? That is nonsense. Everyone thinks that he is right and everyone is wrong. We do not think like that. We take the words of the authority, that’s all. Or we have no respect(?). This is our program. That is the way of parampara. Not only we accept, but our previous acaryas, all the big, big acaryas, they have accepted. Sukadeva Gosvami said. He is acarya. Vyasadeva says from the very beginning. Krsna says. That’s all right. We take these authorities. We do not dream. That is not our process. Dream, your dream or my dream, this is all rascal. Dream is dream. Why do you think that your dream is right and my dream is wrong?

Brahmananda: That’s why they’re always bickering with one another.

Prabhupada: Yes. There is no standard idea. I dream some way; you dream some way. That’s all. What is this?

Cyavana: Seaweed.

Brahmananda: It looks like a sponge.

Cyavana: Plant.

Prabhupada: That is their defect. If my dream is wrong, why your dream should be right? That they did not conceive of, that “My dream is right(?).” And if you say that “Your dream is also wrong,” yes, I do not dream. I take the facts from the authority. We do not dream. Dream is dream, either yours or mine. It doesn’t matter.

Brahmananda: Well, some people question whether that Aquarian Gospel is authority.

Prabhupada: Why Bible is authority? Who cares for Bible? Nobody cares for Bible. So there, some supporter for some book, these, you will always find it. Huh? Now they are decrying, deriding Bible also. So how do you say that Bible is authority when so many things have changed?

Brahmananda: Even they are changing their interpretation of the…

Prabhupada: Yes.

Brahmananda: …Bible regularly.

Prabhupada: So if you don’t accept Aquarian Gospel authority, who cares for your Bible? At least Aquarian Gospel has been written by some Christian. It is not outsider.

Harikesa: They say he was a drunk.

Prabhupada: But you are a mad. He is drunk, and you are mad. Where is the difference? So, if we can go? [break] It was a statement that the earth is flat. Eh? Where it was stated the earth is flat?

Harikesa: Oh. That was a theory of one of the contemporary Roman philosophers.

Prabhupada: It is not in Bible.

Harikesa: No.

Pusta Krsna: [Break] There is no information in the Bible at all about God. There’s no information about God, simply that God is there, He’s the creator, but nothing more.

Prabhupada: That is in no scripture excepting the Vedic scripture. Clear conception of God is there in the Vedic. Definition of God, clear conception of God, everything is there.

Brahmananda: Their idea is that God is so great that you cannot see Him.

Prabhupada: That’s all right. You cannot see because you are worthless. But those who are worthful, those who have attained liberation, they can see. Just like it is stated in the Bhagavata, apasyat purusam purnam. Apasyat: “He saw, Vyasadeva.” Huh… Bhakti-yogena manasi samyak pranihite amale apasyat. When your heart will be completely cleared of all this material conception, then you can see. So long you are materially contaminated, it is not possible. That’s a fact. But bhakti-yogena samyak pranihite amale. When the heart is cleansed, that is the process. Therefore we are insisting that “Let them hear Hare Krsna.” Ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12] The heart will be cleansed. Then they will understand. All of a sudden, if you speak all this philosophy “Krsna said,” they will accept that “Why Krsna? Krsna is an ordinary man. Why shall I…”

Brahmananda: They will argue.

Prabhupada: Jaya. Because the heart is full of dirty things, so therefore ceto-darpana-marjanam, this is the process. First of all cleanse the heart. Just like slate. If it is unclean, or the mirror, if it is unclean, you cannot see. So you have to cleanse his heart. That we can do. The Hare Krsna mantra… And that is proof. Otherwise how could you come to this camp unless the heart is cleansed? That’s a proof.

Brahmananda: They came by the chanting.

Prabhupada: Yes. Some fish? No.

Brahmananda: In the Old Testament, God was speaking to Moses. So Moses wanted to see God. He was on a mountain. And he turned around, but then God became a burning bush.

Pusta Krsna: That was supposed to be the back of God. The burning bush was the back of God.

Prabhupada: Burning bush?

Brahmananda: A bush that was on fire.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Brahmananda: That’s what…

Prabhupada: God has no material body.

Brahmananda: Because he was not qualified to see God.

Prabhupada: Atah sri-krsna namadi na bhaved grahyam indriyaih [BRS. 1.2.234] By these material senses, you cannot understand God. Namadi. Even you cannot understand His holy name. Our understanding of God begins by chanting the holy name. So by chanting, chanting, because God is not different from the name, you associate with name…, er, with God, and then you become cleansed. This is the process. God is not different from His holy name. So you chant the holy name of God. That means you associate with God immediately. Just like you associate with the sun immediately, er, sunshine—you become warm—similarly, by associating with God, you become God conscious. This is our program. We are giving chance people to associate with God directly by chanting His holy name. God is omnipotent. His name is as omnipotent as He is. These fools, they do not know that.

Brahmananda: They think it’s some lesser, ordinary.

Prabhupada: Yes. And if you say, “Why, then, Krsna? There are many names,” so Caitanya: “Yes, any name of God, if it is God’s name, it is as powerful.” If it is God’s name. “Any name” does not mean you manufacture some name. That is not. Any name by which one can understand this is God’s name, that is there said. Namnam akari bahudha-nija sarva-saktis tatrarpita niyamitah smarane na kalah. This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s preaching. If you do not accept Krsna as a God’s name, then if you have your own name of Krsna, er, God, chant it.

Brahmananda: But it must be standard.

Prabhupada: Must be God’s name.

Brahmananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: That is wanted. But if you do not know what is God’s name, then what you will chant? What you will chant? Then you chant Krsna. We know it is God’s name. Take. Take to our principle. If there is no medical college, come to our medical college. You are welcome. Why you are envious? You have no medical college; at the same time, you are envious of my medical college. Why? Why this nonsense? If you want to learn medical science—you have no medical science, college—come here. This is our proposal. Why you are envious? That means rascal. “Our gold.” Gold is “our gold,” everyone’s gold? “Our gold.” What do you mean, “our gold”? Gold is always gold, either in your hand or in my hand. In your hand it is not Christian gold and in my hand it is not Hindu gold. Gold is gold.

namnam akari bahudha nija sarva saktis tatrarpita niyamitah smarane na kalah etadrsi tava krpa bhagavan mamapi durdaivam idrsam ihajani nanuragah

In the Bible there is no specific name of God. Eh?

Brahmananda: Well, they say, “jehovah” and “Yaweh.”

Prabhupada: Not fixed up. The Mayavada… If you have no fixed name of God, then why don’t you chant Krsna? What is the harm? But envious. Therefore paramo nirmatsaranam. One who has completely eradicated from the envious conception of life, they can take to this way. [Break] …climate of this island is good.

Cyavana: It’s pleasant.

Prabhupada: [Break] …right time. I don’t think he had many followers.

Cyavana: Very few.

Prabhupada: Only twelve, and out of them some proved infidel.

Cyavana: Yes.

Brahmananda: One betrayed him.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Cyavana: Peter?

Pusta Krsna: Judah.

Prabhupada: And after resurrection he had to go away to India.

Cyavana: Yes. That’s ’cause they tried to kill him.

Prabhupada: Yes. Because if he had declared that “I am not dead,” perhaps he would have been again crucified.

Cyavana: Yes. They would keep trying to kill him.

Prabhupada: Because the people were so intelligent, they would not believe him, so out of fear he went away. “All right, stop my preaching. Come on. (laughs) Let me go to find some safe place.” (laughter)

Cyavana: He created a great impression on the minds of men for many, many generations.

Prabhupada: Imperson?

Cyavana: Impression.

Prabhupada: What is that? Impression.

Cyavana: Yes. By his preaching he left a strong impression.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Cyavana: Christianity.

Pusta Krsna: It’s like the flowery words of the Vedas, flowery words of the Vedas, mostly simply dealing with moral principles.

Prabhupada: That also broken. He said, “Thou shall not kill.” They broke it.

Cyavana: Yes, they broke every…

Prabhupada: Everything. [break] Hearing is there. Therefore the other items, eating, sleeping and mating must be there. So there is arrangement for them, everything, within the sand. How you can say within the sand there is no life?

Brahmananda: They think they can have the eating and the sleeping and the mating and not the fearing. They want to have the eating, the sleeping and the mating but not the fearing.

Prabhupada: Why? Here is fearing. Why they are going out? They know we are a different living entity.

Brahmananda: No, the materialists, the human beings.

Prabhupada: There is no fearing?

Brahmananda: Well, they don’t want fearing.

Prabhupada: They don’t want… They don’t want anything, but it is forced upon him. That is their rascaldom. They don’t want something, but it is forced upon him. Still, he says, “No, I am not under control.” That is his foolishness.

Brahmananda: That means he’s a rascal.

Prabhupada: Rascal. That is rascal. Obstinate. Which is fact, he is obstinate—that is rascal. Dog’s obstinacy. [break]…manufacture life with chemical, still obstinate. “Yes.”

Brahmananda: “We shall do it.”

Prabhupada: “Yes. We shall do it, future.” That’s all. This is dog’s obstinacy. We say, “Take one egg. Analyze what chemicals are there. Put together.” “No.” “Yes, it will be…” And we have to accept this obstinacy as science? It is open. If you are really scientist, you take the egg; analyze what chemicals are there.

Brahmananda: Yeah, they are able to analyze, and they also have the chemicals.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Brahmananda: So what is the problem?

Prabhupada: What is the problem? But still, these rascals will say that he is right. You see? He cannot even analyze properly, and still he is obstinate; he is right. This rascaldom is going on. And if we say “rascal,” they are angry. Murkhayopadeso hi prakopaya na santi…: “To a rascal, if you give the right instruction, they will be simply angry.” That’s all. Not pacification, they will be angry. Payah-panam bhujanganam kevalam visa-vardhanam: “Just like the serpent, rascal. If you give him milk, he’ll drink it and increase his poison.” That’s it. The result will be he will increase his poison. Better to keep them starvation. Therefore everyone, as soon as one sees the serpent, immediately kills. No consideration. “Here is a serpent. Kill him.” Similarly, immediately we see the scientists, kill. (laughter) That is the only proccess. So-called scientists. So do you agree, Harikesa, for kicking on the face of these rascals or not?

Harikesa: Yes.

Prabhupada: This is fair proposal. You take one egg, analyze. If you are scientist, you find out what are the chemicals. You have got all the chemicals. And mix it up, the color yellow, and dip into what is called, celluloid ? Or…?

Brahmananda: Cellulose?

Prabhupada: Cellulose, covering? It is just like cellulose. And put underneath the incubator and get. Then we shall accept you. Why not ask all these rascals all over the world?

Brahmananda: One thing the egg has, the egg has… It’s red because there is blood there for nourishment. And they cannot even produce blood.

Prabhupada: Take blood from the slaughterhouse and put it. If blood is necessary, the tons of blood available. You take it and put it here. That is also another chemical. That’s all. Why don’t you do that? Little blood required, there is no question of manufacturing. You can get it from slaughterhouse, tons. Take little drops and put it. It is blood. Where is your science, nonsense? It is practical suggestion. Challenge then in big, big meeting. [break] …past it was coming this side, and fifteen minutes, it has gone down. How many tons of water has gone down on this beach within fifteen minutes? Is there any scientist who can…?

Brahmananda: They cannot control the water in that way. [Break] It’s like there was a big valve, and someone has shut the valve…

Prabhupada: Yes.

Brahmananda: …and so the water is getting less. It is controlled.

Prabhupada: And who is controlling? It is not under my control. First time I wanted to go, I could not. But this time I can. So under whose control? It is my control or somebody else?

Brahmananda: Well, they will say “automatic control.”

Prabhupada: What is that “automatic”? That is their stupidity. Everything is being done under control. What is the automatic? [Break] …automatic means you have to wait for that automatic control. You cannot do.

Cyavana: Yes.

Prabhupada: Then where is the meaning of “automatic”?

Brahmananda: But their idea is that they can change the automatic control to suit their own…

Prabhupada: That is their… That is their stupidity. Therefore they are fit for being kicked. That is the disease—imagining, obstinacy. They cannot do anything; still they’ll claim they can do. “Pay me my salary.”

Pusta Krsna: What is the position of the scientist who studies the laws of nature and then he tries to utilize them for his advantage, exploits them?

Prabhupada: That’s all right. The law is there. That is not his law. So his intelligence will be there when he understands who has made this law. Then his intelligence. That is intelligence.

Pusta Krsna: Just like making airplane. They observe the bird, and then they make…

Prabhupada: Now, that they… When they admit, “Oh, this law is made (heavy static) ,” then they come to senses.

Brahmananda: They become?

Pusta Krsna: “To their senses.”

Brahmananda: To their senses. Yes.

Prabhupada: And as soon as they remain in darkness—”Yes, we are trying to control the laws. Future, we shall do”—they’re nonsense stupid. You become educated scientist, mathematician, very good. But ultimately you accept that the law is given by Krsna, or God. Then you are perfect.

Harikesa: One scientist once wrote a book, and in this book a person had some disease, so they invented a little spaceship which was very, very tiny, and they went in through the eye and they saw all of the workings of the body, how all the red blood cells and white blood cells were working and attacking the disease and all these things.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Brahmananda: They made a cinema of this.

Harikesa: So there was one scene in which they are looking out and seeing all of these, this fight going on inside the blood, and the one scientist inside the machine said, “How can they say there is no God?”

Brahmananda: Even when the American astronauts went up, they brought a Bible with them, and when they saw the earth, how wonderful it was…

Pusta Krsna: And they didn’t make it to the moon.

Brahmananda: …they quoted from the Bible about how wonderful the creation of God is, how He has made it.

Prabhupada: And only they saw the moon planet is… There is no living entity. Why God made the moon planet? To keep it vacant? Full of dust?

Brahmananda: Yes. They become more proud that this earth planet is so full and other planets are all vacant.

Prabhupada: So God is so fool that He made all other planets vacant, and here for the rascals, there is… (laughter) Full of rascals.

Harikesa: He had to put the dust somewhere. That’s one of the theories, that all of the gas… In the beginning all the gas was circulating around and it solidified into different planets.

Prabhupada: So why this planet is full of living entities? Why not others? What is that gas? What particular gas was circulating this planet? So take this gas, circulate over here, and get living entities there and live there. Why don’t you do that, you scientists? Why you are disappointed? You are going to Venus. Just see. This rascaldom we have to believe.

Harikesa: That’s the next famous theory after the chunk theory.

Prabhupada: It is simply waste of time even to talk with these fools.

Pusta Krsna: The governments are giving billions and billions of dollars…

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pusta Krsna: …in scientific grants.

Prabhupada: All another set of fools, that’s all. [Break] …whole world is unhappy on account of being controlled by different set of fools. That is the calamity. If they say, “There are so many educated persons. They are controlling, and you are saying “fools.” Why? Then what you will answer?

Harikesa: “Krsna says.”

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pusta Krsna: Mudha.

Prabhupada: Mudha, naradhama mayayapahrta-jnanah. They have no knowledge. “Why no knowledge? Degrees.” No, this is maya. “What is the cause?” Asuri-bhavam asritah: Godless rascal. Therefore he’s a mudha.

Harikesa: So it’s not that we’re so much concerned about science but rather the asuravada.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Brahmananda: We don’t have to research because our conclusion is already there.

Prabhupada: Already there. And it is acting, practical. How from the stone this has come? Stone and sand, but they are life; it is green. [Break] …this?

Brahmananda: This is a type of tree. There’s many of them like this.

Prabhupada: What is this? Fuel? (?) Now… Just see how fresh it is. You can take some foodstuff and eat very nicely.

Cyavana: Oh, yes.

Prabhupada: And then throw it. That’s all. What is the use of keeping on the veranda for three years? (laughter) I am seeing every day so carefully.

Devotee: Jaya Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. (end)