Morning Walk Conversation Prabhupada: Their civilization begins from monkey, and our civilization begins from… Dr. Patel: From Vedas. Prabhupada: …Brahma. Dr. Patel: From Brahma actually when he learned the Vedas. Prabhupada: Yes. Dr. Patel: Those four or five, five or four slokas, original of Srimad-Bhagavatam, I want to learn from you. I read all the commentary— you have written commentary for four pages—but I think I am little mudha to understand it. (laughing) So I’ll learn directly if you can teach me. I am now critically studying your, this thing, commentary on this. Prabhupada: Hm. Very good. Dr. Patel: Once I read it, but now I am doing a critical study of it. Both of Sanskrit as well as your comments. [break] Prabhupada: …divided by separate words. Dr. Patel: It is written in purport too much (Sanskrit). The combination of this word is so difficult… Prabhupada: …recommended to study Bhagavata from bhagavata, not by grammar. Dr. Patel: No, no. But unless, I mean, I like Sanskrit myself, so I try to learn Sanskrit; I can read other, more Sanskrit books. So it is a sort of a study with me, as well as a knowledge of Bhagavata. So I am trying to be more critical about it. But that way I have read Bhagavata in Gujarati, even in Hindi (indistinct) Gorhakpur. Prabhupada: …Visnu Purana. Dr. Patel: Visnu Purana is (indistinct) from Mahabharata. It is very easy. Extremely easy. Prabhupada: Hare Krsna! (to passerby) Dr. Patel: Some of the, some people try to poke at us also. Prabhupada: Huh? Dr. Patel: They are fools. Prabhupada: What is that? Dr. Patel: Well, because we, we chant God’s name, out of fun they also say. But we… Prabhupada: That is also good. Dr. Patel: That we should not take it like that. Prabhupada: If one chants Hare Krsna jokingly, that is also good. Dr. Patel: That’s it. Yesterday morning you came? Prabhupada: Yes. Dr. Patel: I thought you were coming tonight. Because you, your letter has come that you reach on the (indistinct). Prabhupada: What is that? God says “Let there be creation,” and there was creation. Why three months? Dr. Patel: Ah, that is, we are not… (laughing) Prabhupada: He says “Let there be creation”; there was creation. Dr. Patel: It was the will of God, so this is also the will of God. Prabhupada: Here you see, God says, “You come here,” immediately you come. “You go there,” immediately you go there. (Dr. Patel laughs loudly) You cannot bring the water by your scientific process, immediately. But when God says “Immediately”—within a second. (sound of waves in background) Hare Krsna. Dr. Patel: I am going to give you a small piece of news. My, that small daughter, she also took first-class, first distinction name. Prabhupada: Oh, bolo(?). Dr. Patel: She also stood first. My son also stood first and got the gold medal. She also got the same, by your grace! Prabhupada: (laughs) By Krsna’s grace. Dr. Patel: This is unique perfomance in Bombay, that no doctor’s two children have got first like this. Prabhupada: Hm. All of them, M.D.? Dr. Patel: M.D. Very distinguished, first class. I was very much pleased… [break] Prabhupada: …one is animal. So animal means ferocious. Dharmena yena pasave samanah. They’re as good as animal. You cannot expect any good behavior from animals. This is going on. They want to keep the whole population animal, and they’re making big, big plans—United Nations, this, that. Dr. Patel: This is a problem. It’s committed from the poor nations of the world, this United Nations. Prabhupada: There is no education for making people a human being. Dr. Patel: Karl Marx, Hagel and Engels and those people have got this nonsensical idea that interaction of matter itself produces what we call consciousness. It is not the consciousness which I mean agrees with the matter. The very first basis on which this rascaldom is, I mean the basis is this: revolting against the tenets of Hindu teaching. No? Prabhupada: Hindu-Muslim teaching… Dr. Patel: No, I mean sanatana dharma of this country. Prabhupada: Sanatana dharma, there is no teaching; it is already there. Dr. Patel: Yes, that’s it. Prabhupada: There is no concoction. Dr. Patel: This concoction has come out from there. Prabhupada: Yes. No, everywhere. In your country also there are so many parties… Dr. Patel: Karl Marx… Prabhupada: Karl Marx maybe. Even your Gandhi-ism, that is also concoction. Gandhi invented nonviolence; it is also concoction. It is impossible. Everyone is doing this—something manufacturing. That is not sanatana dharma. Sanatana dharma is never manufactured. It is already there. You have to accept it, that’s all. Otherwise everyone is manufacturing some conncoction. This is going on. Krsna is teaching, “Fight.” And Gandhi is teaching from Bhagavad-gita nonviolence. Just see! Is it possible? Dr. Patel: The will of God is the real thing. Prabhupada: Yes, that is Krsna consciousness. His will is supreme. Whatever He says, that’s all. As soon as you manufacture, everything is spoiled. Dr. Patel: It is fractured by man instead of manufacturing. Fractured, broken. Prabhupada: Yes. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanas te’pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhah. Pisa tantrya, under the laws of God or nature, everyone is tied, hands and legs, and he’s thinking independently, “I can do that.” Dr. Patel: But slowly and slowly, sir, the modern science is trying to prove that sanatana dharma, the existence of God everywhere. Which in our times, if we respect scientists for their… Prabhupada: “They are trying to prove” means so long they are rascals… Dr. Patel: They are rascals. I quite agree with you. You have caught my rascals. (both laughing) Prabhupada: As soon as you say “progressing,” that means they are rascals. Unless one is rascal, what is the meaning of progress? Hm? Rascal requires progress. Dr. Patel: Whether they do progress or regress we don’t know, but… Prabhupada: No, that progress means still rascals. After ten years they’ll make no… This is progress. So they have no standard knowledge, and that is very much palatable, modern progress. Mudha. Dr. Patel: But sincerely by all these six, six, I mean sastra, I mean what you call darsanals(?), our forefathers have realized God, by all the six methods of darsanas. Prabhupada: You, why your forefathers? Everyone’s forefather can understand. Dr. Patel: No, no. Other civilized people’s forefathers. (laughs) The Aryan race. Nyaya vaisesika also has told the same thing. This, such sastra, I mean darsanas, are all from the Vedas. They are all from the Vedas you see. Prabhupada: No, they are not strictly Vedas. They are partial. Just like mimamsa. They say that you do good work and you get the result. That is godlessness. Dr. Patel: Karma-mimamsa, karma-kandis. Prabhupada: Yes. Dr. Patel: But a karma-kandi is one of the… Prabhupada: “There is no need of God. You do your duty.” Dr. Patel: And God will do His duty. Prabhupada: “God is obliged to give you the award.” That is their philosophy. We can practically see: suppose two men working very hard, are they getting the same result? Dr. Patel: No, that is their karma bandhana… Prabhupada: Hare Krsna! (greeting a few people) Jaya. Dr. Patel: Your explanation of this is so very wonderful about the all muktas and baddha jivas in the beginning, I mean the Bhagavatam, that even people, whether to remain mukta or baddha. And then when they became baddha, they were overtaken by the lower maya. And then this is the whole cosmos. So gravely I have understood this, just this is my second reading. Prabhupada: Krsna bhuliya jive bhagavan akore kari pasate maya ta’re japatiya kare. Dr. Patel: I think this one commentary is Jiva Goswami’s. Hm? Prabhupada: Yes. Jiva… Not Jiva Goswami. There are… I consult so many others. Dr. Patel: This commentary is Rupa Goswami or Jiva Goswami? Jiva Goswami. Prabhupada: No, we have got Visvanatha Cakravarti also. Sridhara Swami, Biraraghava, Vijayadvaja. Hare Krsna! (to passerby who loudly greets and has Hindi exchange) Dr. Patel: This man is seventy years old. (more exchange of greetings) He is sixty-eight, sixty-nine years. He will be eighty years, (laughing) he wants to remain young that way. Prabhupada: Healthy, he’s quite healthy. (Hindi conversation with other man) We repeat simply Krsna’s statement. That is our… Our mission is “Krsna’s standard”—yare dekha tare kaha krsna upadesa. This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s mission. Don’t manufacture, rascaldom. Simply repeat what Krsna has said. And it is simple. And as soon as you try to manufacture, it becomes difficult. How Caitanya Mahaprabhu has made things so easy. amara ajnaya guru haya tare ei desa yare dekha, tare kaha ‘krsna’-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128] That’s all. How simple it is. You, every one of us, we take this missionary activities of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, we see immediately the face of the country will change. Every gentleman, every sane man, may speak to his family, to his community, to his nation, to his friend, what Krsna has said. Then see the result. But they’re all manufacturing, conncocting. Becoming big scholars. The more you deviate from Krsna’s instructions, you become a scholar. Dr. Patel: I mean the industrial revolution has really produced a sort of a turmoil in the social set-up… Prabhupada: Yes. Dr. Patel: Because the machine has produced good, and the benefit has been taken over by the… Prabhupada: Ugra, ugra. This has been described in Bhagavad-gita, ugra karma. Dr. Patel: Yes. Ugra karma. Prabhupada: Instead of making life simplified, they have made it a turmoil. Dr. Patel: And then the whole society has been so entangled in this things. Independently (indistinct). In this way this industrialization, raising of the wants of men, and then production for the fulfilling of their wants. Only men engaged all the twenty-four hours in this fulfillment of the wants. All the machines are grinding for that. Production of the goods, not for the good… [break] Prabhupada: …Karl Marx, why not others? Dr. Patel: Karl Marx is the grandfather of all of this. Prabhupada: Anyone who is concocting, he is an asura. Hm? Na vidur asura ajana (sic). Pravitti ca nivrtti ca na vidur asura ajana (sic). Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit) That is what they want. If they are competing with each other from tomorrow… Prabhupada: (aside:) Hare Krsna, Jaya! [break] No. Why Karl Marx? Your Vivekananda says yata mat tata patha: whatever you manufacture, that is all right. Dr. Patel: That is because you are struck by the utter poverty of the people… Prabhupada: No, no… Dr. Patel: It was temporary, you see. Because here Karl Marx wanted it permanent, and… Prabhupada: He himself is suffering from poverty—of knowledge. Dr. Patel: Karl Marx, he committed the greatest sin… Prabhupada: Krsna says mam ekan saranam vraja, and Vivekananda says yatha mat tatha path. Just see. He is poverty-stricken of knowledge, and he’s giving knowledge. Just see the fun. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said guru more murkha dekhi’ kori… sasan: “My guru found Me, seeing Me, I am a fool number one, he has chastised Me.” What is that? “Don’t read Vedanta; You cannot understand. Chant Hare Krsna,” because… Dr. Patel: Here we are talking about the divya part of the… Prabhupada: Because, no, He was questioned… Dr. Patel: …of the life. I talk of the maintenance of the body. To maintain the body Karl Marx put up this theory and, I mean, spoiled the whole thing—whole society and social set-up. Prabhupada: (Hindi to a passerby) Everyone is manufacturing; that is my point. Either Karl Marx or this one or that one, everyone is manufacturing. No one is taking the instruction. And our mission is “Take instruction of Krsna.” This is Krsna consciousness. We don’t manufacture like nonsense. What you’ll manufacture? You are imperfect, your senses are imperfect… Dr. Patel: We are manufacturing only for the body, but all these… Prabhupada: Nothing you can manufacture, even in the body. You are medical practitioner, hundreds of men you see, different types of body. Is it not? You cannot say that this is the standard.” Karanam guna-sangasya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. The actual disease is the contamination of the guna. Dr. Patel: But they desire the people who are manufacturing for the gunas only, and not for the soul. That is what I am hinting at. Prabhupada: That is another ignorance. That is another ignorance. Dr. Patel: These fellows… That is what I said. That they are ignorant because they are only doing anything for the body and not for the soul. Prabhupada: Always gunatita. They do not understand traigunya-visaya veda nistraigunyo bhavarjuna. Everyone is contaminated by the… Dr. Patel: All the lower, all this knowledge is no doubt traigunya. Superior knowledge. But spiritual knowledge is beyond the three gunas. Prabhupada: Yes. Sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya kalpate [Bg. 14.26] We have to transcend all these gunas, and that is Krsna consciousness. Now they are realizing even in Western countries… Dr. Patel: But they will realize (Hindi). They will learn it by… Prabhupada: (Hindi, makes Patel laugh) Krsna juta maro ha mam kavi ne jan… Dr. Patel: (laughing heartily) …you are very hard… Prabhupada: What is the meaning of vihaya? (Hindi) Dr. Patel: We tolerate everything. (more Hindi) The whole civilization, the modern civilization, is wholly at fault. Unfortunate. And that is the schools we are sending our children to, and these are the public schools. Prabhupada: (Hindi about the Gurukula in Vrndavana) Dr. Patel: They’re getting (indistinct) of knowledge, after all they will (indistinct). Prabhupada: We are opening gurukula, but who will give? A gentleman will not give. Hare Krsna! (man stops and Patel introduces him) Dr. Patel: He’s a great scholar and poet of Gujarati literature, and he comes from the same place where the… Bet, he’s from Bet, Dvaraka- bet, where all those temples are. Prabhupada: He’s a great devotee of Krsna. Dr. Patel: Yes, he’s a brahmana devotee of Krsna. And a great teacher, he was at university, a professor of Gujarati literature and a great, well-renowned poet… Prabhupada: So you do not come to our temple? Man: Don’t believe what he says! (laughter) I am just a humble servant. Prabhupada: That is wanted. That is Krsna consciousness. Gopi bhartuh pada-kamalayor dasa-dasanudasa… Dr. Patel: He only writes poems on God, Mr. Bethai. His name is Bethai, because he comes from the Bet. Prabhupada: Oh. Dr. Patel: Dvaraka-bet. Prabhupada: (Bengali:) …puri sankhe bole mane ram. That don’t go to any… Sit down anywhere and chant Hare Krsna. Dr. Patel: Places of worship are sacred because of the, because sacred people are living there. Prabhupada: Govinda carana kara sau—always think of Govinda carana. Prahlada Maharaja also. Mukundam caranambujam. Make this business only. And Raghunatha dasa Gosvami also, he, “Don’t execute dharma, neither commit sinful life. Simply think of Krsna’s lotus feet.” Krsna also says, man-mama bhava mad-bhakto… Dr. Patel: Sir, lotus feet; these are, these people are actually putting such a long varga, I am trying to see the lotus feet of God here, arca-vigraha. Well, I am unable. Instruct them to put up, little varga up, so that we can have darsana of His sacred feet. Please. Tell them. Too long vargas, you simply can’t see anything. You were there on… Giriraja: That’s in the morning, because of the night dresses. But after the srngara is changed for the day, you can see. Prabhupada: How He’s sat tight to call everyone to come and see. Hm? The municipality came to drive Him away. Dr. Patel: You see the present municipal, I mean, administration has fallen into the hands of rogue rascals and horrid people, you know, because of these so-called arald(?) franchise… (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
December 16, 1975, Bombay