Morning Walk Conversation Prabhupada: We may differ from other philosophers, but why there should be any difference of philosophy amongst ourselves? Tamala Krsna: There seems to be some philosophical difference. Prabhupada: That I am asking. What is that philosophical difference? Madhudvisa: One of the points, obvious points, that are there is that many of the boys that are working with Siddha-svarupa feel more allegiance to Siddha-svarupa than they do to you. Prabhupada: That doesn’t matter. Madhudvisa: And they distribute his books instead of your books on the street. Which is a fact. Siddha-svarupa: Which is a lie. Madhudvisa: Which is a fact. Siddha-svarupa: Why do you do like that? Why do you say like that? Madhudvisa: Because I have seen it in New Zealand. I have been there myself. Prabhupada: No, no, if he denies that… Siddha-svarupa: You know that they distribute Prabhupada’s books, but they can’t give them away as cheaply, that’s all. Madhudvisa: Back to Godhead is very cheap. It is twelve cents a piece. Siddha-svarupa: They give those away. They give those away. Madhudvisa: It is twelve cents a piece. You cannot say that. Siddha-svarupa: But anyway… Jayatirtha: One of Siddha-svarupa’s men bought some Bhagavad-gitas from us in Los Angeles, several cases, so they are distributing Prabhupada’s books at least as well along with others. Prabhupada: No, I think… Siddha-svarupa: I just bought five thousand dollars’ worth of Bhagavad-gitas. Madhudvisa: That’s very good. Siddha-svarupa: What is it for? Madhudvisa: And they give them away. Siddha-svarupa: Thank you. Thank you, God. Prabhupada: No, no, even giving them away, what is the wrong? Madhudvisa: Well, you said we should not give the books away. You said we should sell these books. Prabhupada: (chuckles) No, no, he has purchased. He has purchased. Then if you purchase from me and if you give free to others, so what is my loss? Madhudvisa: No, there is no loss. Siddha-svarupa: I’m not giving away his books. Prabhupada: No, no, even if he gives away, this is not a fault, ou see? Suppose there are… In South Africa many Indians are purchasing our books and giving to the library. So somebody will read it. So that is not a fault. If I purchase from you and give it, distribute it free to somebody else, that is not wrong thing. Siddha-svarupa: Srila Prabhupada, I don’t think that there’s any difference in philosophical understanding or anything. I think just the basic point that there’s different ways of working, in a sense, and I won’t… Prabhupada: So that should be adjusted, because we have to work. If we make differences amongst ourselves, then how work will… Guru-krpa: I think, Srila Prabhupada, that the difference is that we are willing to spread Krsna consciousness according to your instructions, but… Prabhupada: That should… That is the… Guru-krpa: But Siddha, they have their own way they think they can influence people to take to Krsna consciousness, which is more or less not fully presenting Krsna consciousness in a way of complete surrender. In other words, they are keeping hairs and are not full- time devotees, such as we are, to spread it all over the world. Siddha-svarupa: You mean they’re not surrendered to you personally, Guru-krpa. It means they’re not working with you personally. Unless somebody accepts you or this person or that person… Guru-krpa: I’m not… No one accepts me. Siddha-svarupa: …then you get upset. Prabhupada: No, I don’t wish to agitate your mind. I want that if there is any difference, that should be adjusted, and we must preach combinedly. That is my point. Siddha-svarupa: There is no… As far as… Well, you have to judge yourself. I can’t… As far as I’m concerned, I try to get people to chant Hare Krsna and distribute prasadam, and as far as possible distribute books freely or for charge. Guru-krpa: But the chanting is without surrender to the spiritual master. Siddha-svarupa: If I’m trying to get people to chant, that’s all I can do. And if that will purify them, then surrender will come. How can I force someone to surrender? Prabhupada: No, no, what do you mean by surrender? Guru-krpa: I mean that… Prabhupada: Not that everywhere you are preaching, you are expected all of them will be surrendered immediately. That is not expected. Suppose you are preaching amongst hundreds and thousands of men. So it is not expected that all of them will be immediately surrendered. Is it possible? Devotees: No. Prabhupada: Then? Madhudvisa: The point is that many of the men that are following the principles strictly, due to his influence have gone away and have slackened their principles. And that is a fact. Like getting up early for mangala arati. That is not stressed so much. And cutting of the hair. That is not stressed so much. Siddha-svarupa: How do you know these things? You have never lived with me, nor have you ever heard a lecture I have given. Madhudvisa: I have experienced the devotees who have been influenced by you. Prabhupada: Anyway, whatever is done is done. Now let us make some adjustment (chuckles) and work combinedly. That is my proposal. Siddha-svarupa: Srila Prabhupada, the problem is that to work combinedly, they think that that means that I surrender to them and I do everything as they say; otherwise I am not surrendering. So as far as I am concerned, I cannot work with them. There is no possibility of that, and yet I don’t want to make trouble with them, but I have to try to work as best as I can. But there is no way that I’m going to be able to be organized and controlled by them. People who’ve tried to control me before are now spiritually dead and gone, and I’m not going to put myself under the protection of any of these boys who consider themselves to be great sannyasis or whatever, and it’s just not possible for me to do it. I’ve tried it before. So I have to try to work as best as I can, not get in their way, and follow your instructions as best as possible, getting people to chant, following the principles myself. Tamala Krsna: May I ask a question? What is your feeling about the GBC? Siddha-svarupa: I don’t know anything about it, and I don’t really care about organizing it. I don’t care about… Prabhupada: So why don’t you become a GBC and… Siddha-svarupa: Because I can’t work… There’s no way. Prabhupada: No… Atreya Rsi: Srila Prabhupada, there is one point, that each of us thinks that our understanding of Krsna consciousness is the only way. We must realize that this Krsna consciousness is much bigger, much, much bigger than our only concept that “This is bona fide, and this is the only way Prabhupada wants it.” We must appreciate that Prabhupada is approving all of these ways, including how Siddha-svarupa Maharaja is preaching, and we must be more tolerant and accept each other. This is not un-bona fide. I’ve read his books. Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada… Atreya Rsi: Yes, this is it. You are bringing in… Madhudvisa: Prabhupada, you have said that in the tree, the Caitanya tree, there is many branches, but they all have to have the same taste. Atreya Rsi: Well, he has the taste. Madhudvisa: So therefore the essence of the philosophy must be there. And you have also said that the meaning of disciple means discipline, so the devotees have to be trained certain disciplines in their devotional life. Prabhupada: Discipline… Disciple means discipline. The word discipline comes from disciple, or disciple comes from discipline. So unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. This discipline must… That should be uniform. Otherwise, sisya… Sisya, the word sisya, it comes from the root, verb, sas-dhatu. Sas. Sas means ruling. From this word, sasana. Sasana means government. Sastra. Sastra means weapon, and sastra, scripture, and sisya… These things have come from the one root sas-dhatu. So sas-dhatu means ruling under discipline. There is another English word, that “Obedience is the first law of discipline,” or something. They say, “Obedience is the first law of discipline”? So I am right? “Obedience is…”? That is the… Tamala Krsna: Yes, that’s more or less what it is. Prabhupada: No, what is the word, exact. There is an English word. “Obedience is the first law of discipline.” So unless there is obedience, there cannot be any discipline. And unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. Disciple means one who follows the discipline. So… Siddha-svarupa: So there is no disagreement with that. I have no disagreement. Prabhupada: Yes, that is the point. That is… Siddha-svarupa: But I consider that discipline and the person being disciplined must be voluntary. He must voluntarily put himself under someone’s discipline. Prabhupada: Yes, that is… Accepting spiritual master means voluntarily accepting somebody to rule him. There is no question… I have no power to rule over you unless you voluntarily surrender. Siddha-svarupa: Yes. Prabhupada: I am Indian. Why, you Americans, you should obey me? You have done it voluntarily. Yes. So, (chuckles) in India they appreciate me only on this point, that I am Indian; how I am controlling so many Americans? That is their appreciation. (laughter) So this acceptance of guru means voluntarily surrender. Yes. Sisyas te ’ham sadhi mam prapannam. The instruction is there in the… They were friends, Krsna and Arjuna. From material point of view, they are equal. He is also belonging to the royal family, he is also belonging to the royal family, and they are cousin brothers, equal footing, friend. But still, Arjuna said, “Now there is no solution. I become Your disciple.” Sisyas te ’ham sadhi mam prapannam: “I surrender.” And this is sisya, surrender. And then lessons on Bhagavad-gita began. So we have to surrender voluntarily; otherwise discipline cannot be implemented. That is wanted. Sisyas te ’ham sadhi mam prapannam. Guru-krpa: Srila Prabhupada, it mentions in The Nectar of Devotion that in the viddhi-marga there are many things we don’t want to do but we must do in order to make advancement. Prabhupada: No, that is also modern government, democracy. I do not want to do something, but the Parliament pass the laws. We have to do, even I do not like. That is discipline. Just like C. R. Das. C. R. Das was one of the prominent member of Indian Congress. So he was earning in those days, fifty years ago, fifty thousand rupees per month. It is twenty times now increased. Fifty years before he was… Tamala Krsna: Nowadays ten lakhs per month. Prabhupada: At least five lakhs he was earning. So the Congress resolution was that “noncooperation,” so “Boycott British court. We are not going on.” So resolution that everyone should give up practice of law in the British court. Resolution. So C. R. Das did not like that idea. He said that “I am earning fifty thousand. I can give the whole amount for Congress propaganda. Why you are asking me to give up this practice?” So the resolution was, “No, we should noncooperate. We don’t want money. We should noncooperate.” So when… He fought in the meeting that “This should be withdrawn.” So it was not withdrawn. Then he resigned. Then he resigned. He became practically poverty-stricken, because he was earning fifty thousand rupees per month, and he had no practice, and he was not keeping any money in the bank. When he resigned, then some of his friend, Muhammad Ali… He was also one of the prominent members. He asked, “Mr. Das, what is your bank balance?” So he replied, “I do not know what is my bank balance, but I know I am debtor to the bank by two lakhs.” The bank was giving him credit, so this was his position. So my point is that when the… He fought his best that “This resolution should be withdrawn, boycott of British court,” but it was not done. But although he was very strong protester, still he had to do it. This is modern democracy. If the majority votes is in favor of something, even if I do not like it, I’ll have to accept it. That is, of course, the so-called democracy. That…, we do not accept that. Our obedience is to the spiritual master. So in this way we should… If there is any misunderstanding, this should be adjusted and we should work wholeheartedly, because our responsibility is very great. We are trying to contribute something to the whole world. It is not a fashion. It is not a fashion. The whole world is suffering for want of God consciousness, so we are trying to give it to the world, God consciousness, in a systematic way, so that they may be highly benefited. So this is the purpose, but if there is some misunderstanding… Tamala Krsna: What is the actual disagreement? Prabhupada: No, disagreement in the matter of process. You are thinking this way; he is thinking that way. That is the difference. Otherwise he is also eager to push on Krsna consciousness; you are also. Yes. Tamala Krsna: The thing is, both of them are claiming that you are thinking their way. Siddha-svarupa: No, I can’t… Prabhupada: Now that should be adjusted now. I shall give my verdict which is my way. Then you have to accept. Siddha-svarupa: My method is… Prabhupada: Not your way, not his way. Let me understand what is the way you are trying to follow, what is the way he is trying to follow. Now I shall give my verdict, that “This is the right way.” Yasodanandana: Jaya Prabhupada. Tamala Krsna: That’s it. That is the best thing. Siddha-svarupa: So I am offensive, Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada: You are agreeable to that? Siddha-svarupa: Yes. Prabhupada: Then thank you, no more talk now. We shall talk later. [break] Brahmananda: He should… He should cook? Prabhupada: :I do not know. What is the harm? But he does not like… Child: Srila Prabhupada! Prabhupada: Hm. Bhavananda: That short man we passed, Prabhupada, on the way, coming in? Prabhupada: With so much bunch of hair. Who are these men? Oh, they’re working. Bhavananda: They’re pandal… Jayapataka: They are making a pandal. Prabhupada: (aside:) Hare Krsna. Black and white frame. Guru-krpa: Salt and pepper. Prabhupada: Actually our, this society is united nations. And if we become disunited, then it is very difficult to adjust. [break] Yes. Linguist. Tamala Krsna: Hindi also? Prabhupada: I don’t know. [break] Yasodanandana: Parikrama Prabhupada: Parikrama? Yasodanandana: Acyutananda Maharaja just went to Calcutta to arrange everything. Prabhupada: What is to arrange in Calcutta? Yasodanandana: Well, all the devotees are coming, and they will be going to Santipur, and when they come back, they will… We’re working a schedule to take all the devotees to the various parikrama spots. Prabhupada: No, that’s all right. I mean to say, if we make a procession, then first of all… That is my suggestion. Make the devotees first, chanting, all the devotees. And then the Deity, carrying. And then my carriage, my car, and then all the buses. So devotees who become tired, they can sit down in the bus and again go on. And keep one big pot of halava so that others may be distributed, and the devotees, when they are hungry, they can also eat. In this way make. How do you like this arrangement? Gopala Krsna: We’ll do it. Harisauri: I think you’ll need more than one pot of halava. Pusta Krsna: I think we’ll make devotees on the way. Prabhupada: And so long the festival goes on, we shall keep always ready one big pot of halava. Anyone comes, give him this. Anyone comes to visit. While going, take in a leaf, what is called, leaf cup. Give him halava. Tamala Krsna: Everyone on the way. Prabhupada: Everyone. Tamala Krsna: That’s up and down this road. Prabhupada: No. No, no. Anyone who comes within the temple… Tamala Krsna: No, I mean… Guru-krpa: The devotees, and then the Deities, your private car… Prabhupada: But that is procession. In the temple… Tamala Krsna: Generally, cup with prasadam. Prabhupada: Yes. Everyone should be given prasadam. Jaya. (kirtana as Prabhupada approaches temple) (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
March 8, 1976, Mayapur