Morning Walk Conversation Prabhupada: …telling that too much stricture on the grhasthas may cause some disturbance. Eh? Madhudvisa: Yes. Prabhupada: So I think the grhastha themselves should form a small committee and define what they will do, instead of forcing something, because in this age, nobody can follow strictly all the stricture in the sastras. Tamala Krsna: I don’t think that we formulated anything for them to do. Prabhupada: Hm? Tamala Krsna: Any of our resolutions, it doesn’t say anything about what they should do. It simply says what should, how our society should be run, our temples. It doesn’t state anything about how the grhasthas should live. Prabhupada: No… What? What, was your pro…? Madhudvisa: Well, last evening we were saying that sex life according to the regulative principles means sex life only when the guru tells the grhastha to have sex life. And what I said last night is that if that is the case, then there would be no more grhasthas in the society. They will not… They will not become grhasthas. Prabhupada: Be practical. Tamala Krsna: So that point they can discuss amongst themselves, but that doesn’t have anything to do with our resolutions. Right? Devotee: Yeah. This is the idea. Prabhupada: Hm? Tamala Krsna: In other words, our resolutions are on another point, that as far as when they, when they have sex life and when they don’t, they should have a committee and they can decide that. But… Resolutions we passed have nothing to do with that. Our resolutions had to do with if someone is not to be supported by the movement, things like this. Those things are a different matter. The actual way the grhasthas should live, that is their… They should decide that by committee. Yasodanandana: There now should be a proposition that before they enter the grhastha asrama, they should have a means of supporting themselves besides the living off the society. Tamala Krsna: That was said… Yasodanandana: They would… Tamala Krsna: Those things, the GBC made a resolution… Madhudvisa: The resolutions that we made were wrong in that regard. Tamala Krsna: Oh? Madhudvisa: The resolutions that we made were wrong. Prabhupada rectified us. Tamala Krsna: In what regard? Madhudvisa: We made a resolution that if a householder gets married, then he has to take care of his wife for the rest of his life till he takes sannyasa. Tamala Krsna: Yeah, Prabhupada corrected that. Madhudvisa: Yeah. So that resolution was wrong. And also the resolution about the women and the children coming to the temple, not accepting them, that was also wrong. Tamala Krsna: So now what’s the point? Madhudvisa: So now they’re rectified. Tamala Krsna: So now what is the point? Madhudvisa: I’m just saying that we should have a more practical understanding of this, of our attitude towards the whole situation. Tamala Krsna: That’s why Prabhupada corrected us. Prabhupada: So I think it may be further decided. Make a small committee of three or four grhasthas, and you define how you live. Tamala Krsna: Well, what about their relationship with the society? This point was to… I don’t understand why that is being avoided. In other words, how they should live, that they should have a committee for, but the fact that the society cannot support them, that is not for them to decide. That is for the GBC to decide. That is my point. Yasodanandana: I think that point, that’s clear. Prabhupada: Hm? Tamala Krsna: As far as their living conditions, so let them have a committee. Madhudvisa: Yeah. I agree with that. Tamala Krsna: All right. Then there’s no disagreement. As long as you say we should not disclaim all of our resolutions. Madhudvisa: No, no, no, no. Tamala Krsna: Oh, then it’s all right. Jayapataka: Srila Prabhupada is so merciful that if it comes to a point where it means that a person is not in Krsna consciousness or in Krsna consciousness, I think Prabhupada’d rather support them and let them be Krsna conscious. That’s why you have to see whether they stay in the society. Pusta Krsna: Dragging us back to Godhead. Prabhupada: When this pandal is going to be filled up? Bhavananda: The exhibits should be arriving today with the devotees, Prabhupada. Prabhupada: Who are these men? Bhavananda: They are the pandal workers. Prabhupada: Pandal work… [break] Always, what is called…? Communism. They say, whole world, “We are Communists,” “We are capitalists,” “We are socialists,” and “We are nonviolent,” “We are violent.” Madhudvisa: Dualism. Prabhupada: Eh? Madhudvisa: Dualism? Prabhupada: Yes. Not dualism. How many isms, nobody knows. But… What is called? Faction. Faction. Everyone is divided from the other. Madhudvisa: Yeah. Prabhupada: So we should not bring that attitude in our society. That is my request. Guru-krpa: Envious. They’re all envious. Prabhupada: That you should not do. And that unity is possible with, only when harer nama [Adi 17.21] is there constantly. Otherwise, it will be factional. What do you call? Factional is the right word? Hamsaduta: Yes, yes. Factional. Pusta Krsna: What about the distinction between the enjoying spirit and the renouncing spirit? Prabhupada: Hm? Pusta Krsna: For example, there is, as we have been discussing, there is between the brahmacaris and the grhasthas… The brahmacaris have this tendency—at least, this is the attitude— towards renunciation. And so far we can see, a brahmacari who gives up his brahmacari life means he’s more inclined towards the enjoying spirit, at least to some extent. So how do we deal with this situation? Prabhupada: You can… If you want to enjoy, who can stop you? Tamala Krsna: But we cannot…, we cannot support it. We cannot support his enjoyment. That he should take on his own self to do. Prabhupada: They… According to different position and attitude, the four asramas are there: brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha, sannyasa. This means that everyone is not on the equal platform. Different platform. But the whole idea is how to give up the propensity of enjoyment. That is wanted. Pusta Krsna: We find in the Srimad Bhagavatam that Sukadeva Gosvami would approach the householders in the morning just so long as to give them a little bit of spiritual knowledge, and he would accept the offering of some milk. So the sannyasis and renunciates, generally, they wouldn’t very much relish the association of householders because of this enjoying spirit and the association that it entails. So we’re finding also within our society that those who are inclined towards remaining celibate, they’re finding the association of persons even within our movement who have this enjoying spirit to be somewhat detrimental to their own spiritual life. Guru-krpa: Grhe thako vanete thako… Prabhupada: Then. What is your proposal? They should go away? Madhudvisa: Unless there is association, then they will never become purified. Tamala Krsna: Who says they won’t asso…? What is this discussion? This is not… Madhudvisa: It’s not a resolution. Tamala Krsna: This is not a good discussion either. Pusta Krsna: No, but this is basically the problem. Tamala Krsna: No, it’s not the problem, because everyone comes together in a temple for kirtana, for lectures, for prasadam. These things are common activities. There’s no question that we should not have common activities between all the asramas. These are the common ac… But for living, there must be separate arrangement. Prabhupada: Now, even in the temple, you were complaining, the husband and wife were talking. Tamala Krsna: Yes. That’s living. That means living. That is not… They’re not talking Srimad Bhagavatam. Prabhupada: That… Bhavananda: Separate woman’s house, separate man’s house. Prabhupada: That is our Indian system. Up to the family they have got separate house for men, separate house for women, separate house for kitchen, separate house for toilet. Bhavananda: Very nice. Compound. Prabhupada: In Calcutta, we have seen our big, big Mullik family, separate house. Bhavananda: One brahmana village, Sharmapur, I went to. They all lived like that. They had five houses in a compound. Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. A woman’s house, nobody can go. Bahir bari bhitara bari. Bahir bari. Bahir. Who can understand Bengali? Pusta Krsna: Bahir? “Outside,” isn’t it? Prabhupada: Yes. Bahir bari. Bhitar bari. Then pujar bari. Ramna bari. Jayapataka: Kitchen. Prabhupada: Ah, kitchen. Not that within the apartment, all baris. This is European invention. Pusta Krsna: Bari? Prabhupada: Bari means house. In Gujarat they say wadi. Wadi. Bhagavata: Wadi, bhajan wadi. Prabhupada: It is the same thing, bari. In Maharashtra also, they say. Bhagavata: About attraction and aversion… There’s… Prabhupada: Hm? Attraction? Bhagavata: …a point about attraction and aversion, that there’s a complaint that sometimes there’s too much aversion on the part of the brahmacaris. But isn’t that not a quality, to a point a brahmacari should have a healthy contempt for sense gratification? Prabhupada: I do not follow. Pusta Krsna: He’s saying that sometimes the brahmacaris, even the sannyasis, they may have a very strong aversion towards association with women and/or householder life, things of this nature. And sometimes the grhasthas will criticize the sannyasis and brahmacaris that “This is fanaticism,” or it’s, to the other end, “It’s just as bad as the enjoying spirit, because you’re meditating on the same thing, but only you’re averse to it.” So what is the…? Bhagavata dasa’s question is “What is the condition?” Is it better to be neutral or to be averse? Tamala Krsna: Neutral. Prabhupada: These are all fanaticism. Real unity is in advancing Krsna consciousness. Kalau nasty eva nasty eva… In Kali-yuga, you cannot strictly follow, neither I can strictly follow. If I criticize you, if you criticize me, then we go far away from our real life of Krsna consciousness. Pusta Krsna: So is it correct to say that if we’re not Krsna conscious, then if it’s not the grhastha problem, it would be some other problem? Prabhupada: Yes. Pusta Krsna: We’ll find something or another to absorb our time with besides Krsna. Prabhupada: No, you should always remember that either grhastha or brahmacari or sannyasi, nobody can strictly follow all the rules and regulations of them. In the Kali-yuga it is not possible. So if I find simply fault with you, and if you find fault with me, then it will be factional, and our real business will be hampered. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu has recommended that hari-nama, chanting Hare Krsna mantra, should be very rigidly performed, which is common for everyone: grhastha, vanaprastha or sannyasi. They should always chant Hare Krsna mantra. Then everything will be adjusted. Otherwise it is impossible to advance. We shall be complicated with the details only. This is called niyamagrahah. I think I have explained. Madhudvisa: In the Nectar of Instruction. Prabhupada: Niyamagrahah is not good. Niyama means regulative principles. And niyama-agrahah is niyamagrahah. Agrahah means not to accept. And niyama-agraha. Agraha means only eager to follow the regulative principles, but no advancement spiritually. Both of them are called niyamagrahah. So the basic principle is that niyamagrahah is not recommended. The real business is that…. And if we advance in Krsna consciousness, simple method, chanting twenty-four hours, kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. adi 17.31], then things will be automatically adjusted. You cannot find in Kali-yuga everything is being done very correctly, to the point. That is very difficult. Just like our poet, Allen Ginsberg. He was always accusing me, “Swamiji, you are very conservative and strict.” Actually, I told him that “I am never strict, neither I am conservative. If I become conservative, then I cannot live here for a moment. So I’m not at all conservative.” (laughter) I was cooking, and I saw in the, what is called, refrigerator of Yeargen, Yeargon? What is his…? Tamala Krsna: Yeah. (sic:) Jergen. That boy you were staying with. Prabhupada: Ah, ah! I saw he kept some pieces of meat for his cat. So still, I kept my things in that refrigerator. What can be done? I had no place at that time. Jaya. [break] …will be little earlier? Tamala Krsna: Hm. The walk should be earlier. Prabhupada: Quarter to six. And class beginning quarter to seven. Because the sun is rising earlier. Madhudvisa: It’s getting warmer. Prabhupada: (aside:) Hare Krsna. The foodstuff is supplied very nice. Tamala Krsna: Now it’s very nice. Prabhupada: Yes. So this should be maintained. Thank you very much. Tamala Krsna: Sufficient, ample, and very tasteful… Prabhupada: Yes. Tamala Krsna: … nutritious. This Santilal is very much accustomed to cooking for devotees, because when Gargamuni was in Calcutta for nearly two years, he was the chief cook there. So he knows just how to, how not to… Prabhupada: So he cannot give an equal good cook here? Tamala Krsna: Well, maybe he will be kept here. Bhavananda: He’s staying. Tamala Krsna: I think, personally, he should… Guru-krpa: He’s coming on the buses with Gargamuni. Bhavananda: He’s going… Prabhupada: (aside:) Hare Krsna. Variety means beauty. Jayapataka: We were going to bring from New York, I think. Prabhupada: Madhudvisa Maharaja will bring next year. Is it very expensive? Guru-krpa: No, it’s just… Madhudvisa: No, but the computer. You need one computer to run it. Prabhupada: Oh. So that is very costly. Jayapataka: Computers are very cheap nowadays. Madhudvisa: Yeah, it’s very expensive. Actually the electricity would be very expensive, the bill, which would probably be paid by Mahatva(?). (laughs) Prabhupada: No, if it is very expensive, don’t do it. Tamala Krsna: Of course, an escalator is also expensive. If we’re going to worry about expense, then… I think we should wait until we get that big building, the temple, because then, if you put it up there, it can be seen… Madhudvisa: In Calcutta. Tamala Krsna: Even in Calcutta. But this is not very high. [break] Devotee (1): …ignorance, ignorance. Prabhupada: No, those who are inclined, they can become. Jnanam vijnanam astikyam. Devotee (1): Brahma karma… Prabhupada: So (Hindi or Bengali) Zudra-paricaryatmakam karyam. They should be engaged in serving. But sva-karmana tam abhyarcya. Everyone should be engaged in the service of the Lord. That is perfection. Devotee (1): Abhyase samartho ’si mat-karma-paramo bhava. So… Prabhupada: Ah. Mat karma paramo… We have got service for everyone. (Bengali) The modern civilization is everyone is sent for academic education. That is mistake, waste of time. Devotee (1): (Bengali) Prabhupada: (Bengali) (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
March 10, 1976, Mayapur