Morning Walk Conversation
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
April 9, 1976, Vrndavana

Prabhupada: Krsna consciousness, there is one very nice cause. The cause is, the Western people, they have no attachment for wife. Is it not a fact?

Prthu-putra: Yes.

Prabhupada: They do not care for the wife.

Prthu-putra: They do not care for family attachment in general.

Aksayananda: That vairagya is due to frustration.

Prabhupada: Whatever the cause…

Aksayananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: The vairagya is there. That is…

Aksayananda: Then you came and gave the missing link. You gave the Krsna consciousness itself.

Prabhupada: Yes. Vairagya means that there must be another engagement. Then life is successful, with another spiritual engagement.

Aksayananda: That you have supplied.

Prabhupada: That I have studied.

Aksayananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Aksayananda: You must have known that before you went to the West.

Prabhupada: No, it was Krsna’s arrangement. Krsna wanted to preach Krsna consciousness in the Western countries, so He gave me the chance to take the credit, that’s all. It is Krsna’s arrangement. But He liked that one of His devotee may take the credit. That’s all. Nimitta-matram bhava savyasacin. Krsna said to Arjuna that “I have already killed them. They are not returning, either you fight or not fight, but you can take the credit.” So it was arrangement of Krsna that Western countries should now have this Krsna consciousness. And He wanted to give the credit to His poor servant. That’s all. Krsna likes that. He does everything, but He gives credit to His (chuckling) poor servant. That is my…, vairagya. The whole process is how to achieve vairagya. Vasudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogah prayojitah, janayaty asu vairagyam… [SB 1.2.7].

Prthu-putra: Jnanam ca yad ahaitukam.

Prabhupada:jnanam ca yad ahaitukam. That was automatic. And the bhakti-yoga means vairagya-yoga. Vairagya-yogam nija-bhak…. Vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti-yogam. So anyway, you have got the right thing. Now make it perfect. Satatam kirtayanto mam yatantas ca drdha-vratah [Bg. 9.14]. With great vow and endeavor, kirtana should go on. Then it is perfect. There is no difficulty. Tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam [Bg. 10.10]. The kirtana is bhajana. So if you are engaged, satatam, in kirtana, then you are safe. Maya’s father will not be able to touch. In India as soon as you say, “You give up your family life,” immediately he becomes morose. The family attachment, especially the wife’s attachment, is very, very strong. And sastra says if one can give up this attachment of wife, then he can conquer Krsna. It is said. He can conquer Krsna. Simply…. Eh?

Pusta Krsna: There’s a ditch here.

Devotee (1): There’s a place to walk, though, on the left-hand side.

Aksayananda: [break] …from his fallible soldiers.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Aksayananda: Fallible soldiers.

Prabhupada: Fallible soldier? Yes.

Aksayananda: Sometimes I say to young boys, “You are seeking protection from your parents in your childhood, and then, when you grow old or when you grow older, they will want protection from you, because they will become old and feeble. So where is the protection? There is actually no protection.” And everyone can easily understand that.

Prabhupada: Protection is ultimately Krsna.

Aksayananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: It is all false thought that “He is giving me protection. He is giving me…”

Aksayananda: Yes. And the same person who is giving me protection, later he will ask me for protection, and then I will ask somebody else…

Prabhupada: No, no, even when the father-mother is supposed to give protection, that is also not right conclusion. Otherwise there are so many fathers and mothers who is giving protection to his children. The father-mother, when the child is sick, the father- mother gives all—one who has got means—best medicine, best medical treatment, but the child dies. Where is the protection?

Aksayananda: Yes. Even that is…

Prabhupada: It is not possible.

Aksayananda: So there’s actually no protection in any case.

Prabhupada: Somebody was…. Some bird was killed here?

Aksayananda: [break] Sometimes we see a big house and at least two or three generations are all living together, same two or three families, his mother, his…

Prabhupada: That is joint family, yes.

Aksayananda: Yes, joint families. And because of that, the attachment is very strong, it appears.

Devotee (2): Srila Prabhupada? After the Battle of Kuruksetra there were many men killed. How were all the young people and the women protected after so many millions of men were killed?

Prabhupada: What do you mean by protection?

Devotee (2): Well, I mean like Arjuna was arguing that…

Prabhupada: That was also…. That was condemned.

Aksayananda: Yes, that argument was not accepted.

Prabhupada: That argument was not accepted by Krsna.

Devotee (2): But I mean, then how…

Prabhupada: He proved that “You are a rascal. One who puts this argument, he’s a rascal.”

Aksayananda: That was just an excuse to avoid fighting.

Prabhupada: Krsna clearly chastised him that “You are talking like a fool.” Eh? Asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadan: [Bg. 2.11] “Talking like a very learned man, but you are a fool. No learned man speaks like that.” Why they have kept this nice road within this forest? What is the idea?

Hari-sauri: There’s some village on the other side?

Aksayananda: I don’t know.

Prabhupada: No, for village the government is not going to keep such nice road. This government department, forest department…. The government policy is to develop these places for industry in future. This industry is the cause of falldown of the human society— industry. So the reaction is…. The industry, two things required— four things required: land, labor, capital, and organization. So now the industry is going on, and the capitalists and labor, there is fight. The laborers, they are finding out that “We are working. Why the capitalists will take the profit?” This is communism. Is it not?

Aksayananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: So the Communists, they are thinking, “By changing the hand, things will improve.” But they do not know that very industry is the cause of falldown. They’re simply trying to change the hand. The principle should go on, industry, only the proposal is that the capitalists should give up and the workers should take it.

Devotee (2): Which way is India headed towards? The capitalists or the Communists?

Prabhupada: India has no, had no such ideas. They are borrowing ideas. India’s idea is self-realization. Live very simple life— brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra. The brahmanas, they are living simple life, becoming very learned scholar, pure character, advanced in spiritual life—one class, ideal. And ksatriyas, they are supposed to be the king. They distribute the land on nominal taxation, and the vaisyas utilize the land for cultivation and cow- keeping, and the sudras, they are engaged as weaver, blacksmith, goldsmith, mean other necessities of life. In this way the whole society is simplified, and the central point is how to become advanced in Krsna consciousness by cooperation. This is India’s civilization. There is no question of industry. Ugra-karma. It has been condemned in the Bhagavad-gita as ugra-karma, laboring very hard for livelihood. This industry means engage the poor worker class to work very hard, and there is huge profit, and some directors of the capitalists, they take it. And they have one dozen motorcars, palatial building, no work, simply wine and woman, that’s all. This is going on. And the others, they are seeing: “There is no classification, neither real brahmana nor ksatriya nor vaisya. So he is enjoying like that. He has got so many cars. He has got such a nice apartment. Why not me?” There is struggle. This is actual picture. Our Vedic advice is that make life very simple. You must have some means of livelihood. Keep your body and soul together. So according to quality, guna-karma-vibhagasah, there must be division and then simple life. The real aim is tam abhyarcya, how to become Krsna conscious. Everyone is…. Brahmana is guiding, ksatriya is ruling, and vaisya is producing food, and sudra, they have no brain; they are helping. In this way the society is very peaceful, and everyone is advanced in Krsna consciousness. This is India’s civilization. Now, due to this association of the raksasas… Even up to Mohammedan time this civilization was being continued. Mohammedan did not touch the Indian culture. Sometimes by, what is called, fanaticism, there was fight. Not like this. The Arjuna…. Aurangzeb began this. Otherwise, from, what is called, the first emperor? Akbar. Akbar, Jahanghri, then Shajahan, there was no trouble. They did not touch. Even there was some marriage connection. They want to remain as ksatriya king, that’s all. The other things were not interfered. So instead of a Hindu ksatriya, the Musselman ksatriya. People were satisfied: “A ksatriya… We have to work. Somebody must be king.” So in this way the Indian people accepted the Britishers. “All right, you remain king. Don’t interfere.” But later on, to exploit the whole country, they began to plan.

Aksayananda: Industry.

Prabhupada: Yes. The industry, railway, and this way, that way, European way of life. And the result was they were kicked out. And India is now trying to perfect…

Aksayananda: The same thing.

Prabhupada: Same thing. Yes.

Aksayananda: Tragedy.

Prabhupada: Tragedy, yes.

Pusta Krsna: Last year, when Governor Reddy was here, you were talking with him how “Let there simply be the government’s position to check and see that everyone is following their particular religion.”

Prabhupada: Yes, that is government’s position.

Pusta Krsna: So how would, for example, the government…. In a perfect society, how would the government check to see that the brahmanas are actually practicing, and how would…?

Prabhupada: There is…. The brahmana… This is brahmana. This formula is there. Satya samo damas titiksa arjava. So you have to see whether he is possessing this quality. Or train them. Have brahminical school, what I am willing to do. That is required absolutely. There must be a class of men, perfect brahmana. Otherwise society will be ruined. In the Western countries there is no brahmana. There may be some ksatriyas and vaisyas only, and sudras. Brahmana there is none. So the same thing is here also now. Therefore the whole society is going down. There is no brahmana. What is this? This is brahminical culture. We are asking them not to be sinful, become devotee. This is brahminical culture. Namo brahmanya-devaya go-brahmana-hitaya ca. Krsna consciousness means go-brahmana-hitaya ca, for the benefit of brahminical culture and cow protection. That is brahminical culture.

Jayadvaita: So to be recognized as brahmanas…

Prabhupada: Hm?

Jayadvaita: To be recognized, our men will have to be, as you were saying yesterday, perfect gentlemen.

Prabhupada: Yes, brahmana means perfect gentleman. Brahmana means perfect gentleman. A rogue, thief, cannot become brahmana. (laughs) Brahmana is perfect gentleman. Who feels for others, that is gentleman. Who does not feel for others, for his sense gratification, he is a rogue. A brahmana, a gentleman, must feel that “Why there should be animal killing?” That is gentleman. If you are killed, you cry and you are…. Hundreds and thousands of animals you are killing on the plea that they have no soul? Lowest class, naradhama. They have been described as naradhama. So naradhama civilization, how he can be happy? There must be frustration.

Devotee (1): Yesterday, Srila Prabhupada, four or five people stopped me while I was in a bus during the day, and they would stop me and look at me with tilaka and etcetera, and say, “Why have you given up your Western life and taken to this life?” (Prabhupada laughs) They were amazed. And then I had a Bhagavatam, and I’d show them your picture, and I’d show them the Bhagavatam and say, “Param drstva nivartate, a higher taste.” And then they would appreciate. They would…. They were so impressed by your Bhagavatam. They looked at your picture, and they’d go, “Yes, yes, you are right.”

Prabhupada: Yes, in my Preface I have written that: “What is the necessity of the human society?” This is this Krsna consciousness. It is required. It is a mistake to understand that we are trying to push on Hindu culture. Where is the Hindu culture? To become a gentleman is Hindu culture? It is for everyone.

Jayadvaita: They think that their paraphernalia makes them gentlemen. If they have a big car and a nice house then they are gentleman.

Prabhupada: And he may be great rogue, that “Simply dress yourself nicely; you become gentleman.”

Devotee (1): Usually materially opulent people are puffed up and mean. They’re not…

Prabhupada: Gentleman means that if you go to a gentleman’s store, “Beware of the dog. Beware of the revolver.” This is your culture. And when you go to the airport everyone is searched out, pocket. So who is gentleman? Is that gentleman? There is no gentleman in the world. All rogues and thieves, cheaters, bluffers. Now we are creating gentlemen. Otherwise there is no gentlemen. Here is the proof. If we are gentleman, why we are being checked in the airport? Hm? This is the proof. There is no gentlemen.

Aksayananda: Because they’re not expecting any gentlemen.

Prabhupada: That means there is no…. In other words, there is no gentlemen.

Aksayananda: Yes. They’re only expecting rogues.

Prabhupada: Sometimes…. In most cases they do not check me. “This is gentleman.” And there is all…, no gentlemen. And this is the test, how to test a gentleman, that one who is not surrendered to Krsna…. Or one who is surrendered to Krsna, he is gentleman. Krsna says that

na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah mayayapahrta-jnana asuram bhavam asritah [Bg. 7.15]

So anyone who has not surrendered to Krsna, he is not gentleman. Bas. That is the test. He is not a gentleman.

Jayadvaita: Just like that man yesterday, that farmer, was so polite.

Prabhupada: Yes, he is gentleman. He is Krsna conscious. This can be used very nice dako(?) If you stack it nicely, you can use as dako(?). It is very good…

Jayadvaita: [break] Cintamani gate.

Pusta Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, the Vaisnavas in general in Vrndavana, are they lamenting for the physical upkeep?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Pusta Krsna: Are the Vaisnavas in general lamenting for the physical upkeep of Vrndavana, or are they indifferent?

Prabhupada: No, it is the business of the government. Vaisnava can chant Hare Krsna mantra anywhere. He doesn’t require any nice park. Ahaituky apratihata. For becoming Krsna conscious, for a serious person, there is no obstacle. Any condition he can do it. [break] …why there is sannyasi? In the Vedic civilization, ultimately sannyasa. Why? That one must give up the intimate relationship with wife. This is the ultimate position. Brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha, sannyasa.

Pusta Krsna: Tamo-dvaram yositam sangi-sangam.

Prabhupada: That is recommended everywhere. Illicit or legal…. Mahaprabhu has said, asat eka stri-sangi: “Anyone who is attached to woman, he is asat.” Bas. This is the whole process, how to become detached from the attraction of woman, dhira. [break] Give up the connection with woman is recommended. So in our society it will be a good test. We are mixed up with men and women. If you in spite of this allurement, if you do not become attracted by woman, then you should know you are paramahamsa. Yes. You are worshipable. And this Bhagavata-dharma is meant for the paramahamsas. Paramo nirmatsaranam. It is especially. Dharmah projjhita. The other different types of regulated system, to become very religious man or to become very expert money-hunter or accumulation of money, dharma, artha, and enjoying sense enjoyment—the whole world is appreciating these men, who is a religious man, who is very much able to satisfy his senses, dozens of cars and three dozen women, naked dance. They are taking this. Dharma artha kama. And somebody is trying moksa, being baffled or dissatisfied: “These things will not…. I shall become one with.” So dharma artha kama moksa. So Bhagavata says, “These are all kicked out.” Paramo nirmatsaranam. For the paramahamsas. So anyone who is freed from all these allurement, he is paramahamsa. And this paramahamsa-samhita, it is called, Bhagavata…. Paramahamsa-samhita. Bhasyam brahma-sutranam **.

Prthu-putra: We also should be free from the extension of this, which is profit, adoration, and distinction.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Prthu-putra: We also should be free from profit, adoration and distinction, which are just extensions of these desires.

Prabhupada: A Vaisnava does not require any, what is adoration or distinction.

Pusta Krsna: There’s a line of preaching in our society that subtle manifestation of sex attraction is adoration, profit, and distinction.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is…. Mahaprabhu says, trnad api sunicena.

Pusta Krsna: There’s another path going this way if you’d like to walk some more, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: [break] …that garden.

Jayadvaita: Yes.

Prabhupada: Where so many men come there.

Jayadvaita: And it is just near our temple.

Prabhupada: Yes. Very calm and quiet.

Hari-sauri: Very pleasant.

Prabhupada: But we shall go this way?

Pusta Krsna: Yes, it’s okay. The car is just back here when you want to go back.

Devotee (1): On one tape in America you said that the Westerners have created many, many parks, but because they are so busy trying to work hard for money they cannot take advantage.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Devotee (1): Therefore we will come early in the morning and take advantage.

Prabhupada: Yes, that is our ajagara-vrtti. Ajagara-vrtti means we haven’t got to work for anything. Everything should be done by others, and we shall take possession of it. (laughter) Just like the Americans. They have earned so much money, and I have gone there and taking possession. I am not more clever than the Americans? (laughs) “Chant Hare Krsna and give money. I’ll take to India.” What do you think?

Pusta Krsna: You once gave the example of a mouse. The mouse digs a hole, and then the snake comes along and takes the house away from the mouse.

Prabhupada: Yes. And eats him. The mouse makes very comfortable home by digging, and the snake comes, he enters without any labor, and the mouse is there and he eats it.

Jayadvaita: Free food and free home.

Prabhupada: Yes, ajagara-vrtti. What is that? Python. Ajagara-vrtti and madhukara-vrtti. For your necessities of life either you take ajagara-vrtti or madhukara-vrtti. Madhukara means the fly, honeybee, bees. They take little from this flower, little from this flower, and they stock it, and somebody comes and takes it away. Don’t stock. Therefore we have to follow this, that whatever money is coming, spend it for publication or for constructing temple. No account in the bank. Finish.

Jayadvaita: [break] …is that no one can be contaminated by it.

Prabhupada: Yes, that blessing for them.

Jayadvaita: As soon as I have five dollars, I’m thinking that “Now I have five dollars. I can…”

Prabhupada: Hm?

Jayadvaita: I’m thinking, “Now I have five dollars. I can purchase something. What shall I buy?”

Prabhupada: Why? If you don’t require anything, why should you purchase? Don’t create artificial demand. If you require to purchase something, then purchase. That is material civilization. “I don’t require it; still I want it.” Atyahara.

atyaharah prayasas ca prajalpo niyamagrahah jana-sangas ca laulyam ca sadbhir bhaktir vinasyati

Finish. We should not possess anything which is not absolutely necessary. We are keeping these cars for preaching facility, not for sense gratification. We are keeping this dictaphone for preaching facility. Otherwise why it should be required?

Pusta Krsna: It is the whole mentality, then.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Pusta Krsna: :The whole mentality is changed in Krsna consciousness.

Prabhupada: Yes. Just like the Kuruksetra fight. Krsna wanted; therefore he fought. Personally he did not want. Hare Krsna. (end)