Room Conversation Prabhupada: …could not eat one capati. (laughter—Prabhupada laughs) Later on: “Bring more!” Kirtanananda: Prabhupada was feeding us all from his own plate. Prabhupada: Yes. Sit down. [break] New spoon? Hari-Sauri: Yes, a new spoon. I think Jagannatha-suta bought it, and a few others. Prabhupada: That article is very nice, Jagannatha’s… Hari-Sauri: Er, Jagjivana. Prabhupada: Jagjivana. Jagjivana. Hari-Sauri: There’s one article that he wrote for the BTG and a reply that Visvakarma made. Prabhupada just read the article. Kirtanananda: I brought some pictures. Prabhupada: Ah, very nice, the Deities. (indistinct) Kisora-Kisori. Devotee: Oh, it’s beautiful. Prabhupada: Yes…. [break] Colors? Kirtanananda: They have many different outfits. Prabhupada: Oh. Kirtanananda: All of the mukutas and the jewelry, everything is made there at New Vrindaban. We have very expert, ah… Prabhupada: [break] …can have so many engagements. Simply by making dress, we remain Krsna conscious. Simply by cooking, we remain Krsna conscious. Simply by cleansing the floor, we remain Krsna conscious. Easiest method. Everyone can remain Krsna conscious in any circumstance. Ahaituky apratihata. It is not condition that “You have to become like this; then you’ll become Krsna conscious.” No. In whatever position you are, you become Krsna conscious. No extra intelligence required. Sri-vigraharadhana-nitya-nana-srngara-tan-mandira-marjanadau **. Either you dress the Deity or you cleanse the floor of the temple, the same thing. You get the result the same. Tan-mandira-marjanadau. Anything you do. Somebody is cleansing, somebody is chanting, somebody is cooking, somebody is printing, somebody is selling books—everything is Krsna conscious. And that is the best yoga. Sa me yuktatamo matah. Yoginam api sarvesam: [Bg. 6.47] “Of all the yogis, who is thinking of Me, always in Krsna consciousness, is the topmost yogi.” “By meditation I am trying to become God. By meditation one can become God.” This is their foolish theory. Krsna, when He exhibited His godly power at the age of three months, where was meditation? (laughs) God is always God. You cannot become by meditation God. You can become godly; that is possible. Hari-sauri: People become very enamored by this mystic display. You were speaking about mystic power, and peo… Prabhupada: Four annas. (laughter) For four annas I’ll have to try for four hundred years. Why mystic power? To show some jugglery— “How I can fly in the sky, I can walk on the water”—by this mystic power, they create amazement and become imitation God. Imitation God you can become, but you cannot become real God. That is not possible. That is warned. Mattah parataram nanyat [Bg. 7.7]. That’s all. Asamaurdhva: “Nobody equal to Me; nobody better than Me.” So why should you waste your time to become God? You cannot become actually. So why should you waste your time? Remain servant. Then you’re actually…. Get this light. No, no that, inside. You can give me little pineapple juice. Is it possible? Hari-sauri: Right now? Prabhupada: Yes. Hari-sauri: Yes. Prabhupada: You can sit down here. Then also for maharajas. So when you started from New Vrindaban? Kirtanananda: This morning. Prabhupada: And you are coming directly here? Kirtanananda: Yes. Prabhupada: By plane? Kirtanananda: Yes. I left New Vrindaban about nine o’clock. The plane left Pittsburgh at 11:30. Prabhupada: To Los Angeles. Kirtanananda: Arrived here at 3:15. Prabhupada: Pittsburgh. Kirtanananda: We stopped in Chicago for one hour. Prabhupada: Oh. Kirtanananda: You go to Detroit from here? Prabhupada: Hm. That is the program. Ramesvara: Satsvarupa Maharaja and Jayadvaita will be in Detroit also. Prabhupada: Ah. Ramesvara: Anxiously waiting. Prabhupada: You have seen our Detroit, new? Kirtanananda: No. Prabhupada: Oh, it is a great palace. Kirtanananda: I have heard it is very… Prabhupada: It was constructed by spending six million dollars. (laughs) Kirtanananda: Many years ago. Prabhupada: Yes, and it is nice palace, and we got it for 300,000. Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada personally made the arrangement. Prabhupada: (laughs) Yes. That man was asking 350,000, so, just like ordinary arrangement, ten percent down, so I made a bargain: “All right, I’ll give you 300,000 cash. Accept it.” So he immediately accepted. (laughs) There was no money. Then one girl contributed 150,000, and… Kirtanananda: Is that the Reuther girl? Ramesvara: Yes. Prabhupada: And our Ford, Ambarisa Maharaja, he also… Hari-sauri: They have some fresh pineapples and a juicing machine just across the road, so someone has gone for some now. It’ll be five minutes. Prabhupada: You have seen the new publication? Kirtanananda: Which? Prabhupada: Of Bhagavatam. Kirtanananda: I was just looking at it. He was saying that you had two copies, and I said, “Ask for one.” Prabhupada: Yes, you may take. Kirtanananda: They are getting better and better. Prabhupada: Yes. And our Ramesvara Maharaja is guiding them. Kirtanananda: Yes, he’s very expert. Prabhupada: Where is the other copy? Other copy? Ramesvara: Other copy. Hari-sauri: You want to see? Devotee: It’s in here. Prabhupada: That gentleman who came, sitting in chair. Hari-sauri: That Indian man. Prabhupada: Ah, Indian man. Kirtanananda: The print is larger in this volume? Ramesvara: It’s the new standard since the Fifth Canto. Prabhupada: You have seen? Pusta Krsna: No, I just, I typed a little. Prabhupada: Hm? Kirtanananda: I read a little. Hari-sauri: The juice should be two minutes. Srila Prabhupada, the pictures in this new Bhagavatam are the best yet. (people coming in and out of the room) Hrdayananda: These books will satisfy everyone, Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada: Hm? Hrdayananda: These books will satisfy everyone’s desires. Hari-sauri: If they want blood and thunder, it’s this. (laughs) Prabhupada: So you can give one shirt to him and one to… Hari-sauri: He’s getting one now. Prabhupada: Oh, he has got. Hari-sauri: He’s got one. He’s getting one for Hrdayananda Maharaja. Devotee: Prabhupada is giving him one of his personal shirts. Jagadisa: A lawyer, he’s come to see your darsana in the garden for the last two nights. He’s been giving us a lot of assistance in our legal needs. He seems to be very inquisitive about Krsna consciousness. He’s downstairs now. I wonder if he could come up. Prabhupada: He has some inquiries? Jagadisa: Well, he seems to be eating up the philosophy of Krsna consciousness. He’s very eager to hear. Prabhupada: Hm. Jagadisa: He’s downstairs right now. Ramesvara: He’s charging us lower rates, doing, working as hard as he can for us at practically no profit to himself. Prabhupada: Yes, something must be given. Jagadisa: Can I ask him to come up? Prabhupada: Yes. Hrdayananda: This is the greatest gift, Srila Prabhupada. Ramesvara: The greatest contribution, Prabhupada said. Pusta Krsna: Srila Prabhupada has asked that all the sannyasis take one shirt. [break] (conversation continues after entrance of guest) Prabhupada: He wants chair? Ramesvara: He likes sitting Indian style. (Prabhupada laughs) Jay Warner: No, this is fine, thank you. Ramesvara: His name is Jay Warner. Prabhupada: Yes, I…. Acarati sresthas tat tad evetaro janah:“Anything which is accepted by leading men, that is accepted by others.” So you are one of the leading men in the society, lawyer. If you understand our philosophy, then many others will follow. So kindly try to understand our philosophy thoroughly, and then others will follow: “He’s big lawyer. He’s a Krsna conscious man.” If you have any doubt, you can ask. We will try to explain. Asamsayam samagram mam yatha jnasyasi tac chrnu [Bg. 7.1]. Find out this verse. [break] It must be distinct from other paintings. Kirtanananda: Who did that painting? Prabhupada: I think that was done…. Everyone has done one picture. Hari-sauri: That picture of Lord Nrsimhadeva killing all the demon armies, it’s a most amazing picture. He has about twenty arms. Jay Warner: I do have one question. How can one establish faith in the principle of reincarnation? How can one come to believe in it? Prabhupada: Incarnation of God? Devotees: Reincarnation, transmigration. Prabhupada: That is very simple thing. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Now, you were a child. That’s a fact. Were you not a child? Hrdayananda: You were a child before. Jay Warner: Yes. Prabhupada: Where is that body? Jay Warner: Where is the body of the child? Prabhupada: Yes. You were a child. Where is that body? Jay Warner: It has grown into a man. Prabhupada: Grown, or it is changed? The same thing. But that child, that body, is no more existing. Is it not? Jay Warner: Yes, it is gone. Prabhupada: The body may vanquish, but you are going through. That is incarnation. The child body is vanquished; it is no more existing. Either you say grow or I may say it has changed, that body is finished. Is it not? Jay Warner: Yes. Prabhupada: But you are still existing. Jay Warner: I still feel that I am myself. Prabhupada: Yes. That means you were in the child body and you are in this young man’s body. So you are existing, but the body has changed. What is the difficulty to understand? Jay Warner: Where is it difficult to answer? Devotees: (all at once) What is the difficulty to understand? Prabhupada: You are…. When the child’s body, that body, is no more existing, you are in a different body. Jay Warner: The difficulty for me reaches the moment, retroactively, before the moment of birth, or past the moment of death. How can one come to have faith that there is life after one leaves his body? Prabhupada: This is the proof. A child may not understand that there is, after his childhood body, there is another body, boyhood body or youthful body. He may not understand. But that is the fact. If the child says, “There is no more body. This is the final body,” that is not the fact. He is going to get another body which is boy’s body, young man’s body, old man’s body. Similarly, you may believe or not believe, you are going to get another body. The proof is that you have no more the child’s body; you have got a different body. The common sense reasoning. Jay Warner: That is true. But the difficulty for me is that although my spirit wants to believe in transmigration, the scientific upbringing that was inculcated in me from a child has a hard time… Prabhupada: What is that scientific? Jay Warner: Through empirical evidence, through evidence… Prabhupada: This is evidence. I ask you to show me your childhood body. Where it is? Can you show? That is finished. So if the childhood body finished, you get another body, boyhood body. Similarly, the conclusion should be that after this body—I am old man; it will be finished—then I’ll get another body. Jay Warner: That makes sense. Prabhupada: Very common sense. But we are so dull-headed we cannot understand. Jay Warner: I am so what? Prabhupada: We are so dull-headed. Devotees: We, dull-headed…. (laughter) Prabhupada: Just like in the, what is called, movie spool…. Pusta Krsna: Film strip. Prabhupada: Film, yes. There are hundreds of bodies in the film, and when they are played, it seems that it’s the same—one man is moving—but actually, in the film there are hundreds of bodies, but it is changing so swiftly it appears one. Jay Warner: A man’s eye cannot see it changing. Prabhupada: Huh? Jay Warner: A man’s eye cannot see it change. Prabhupada: Yes. By nature’s law it is changing every second in such swift way that we cannot understand. Jay Warner: How does one give up the fear of dying? Prabhupada: There is no death. You change body. Because the body is lost, you are no more, you do not possess the childhood body, youth-hood body, that does no mean you are dead. You are living; the body has changed. But because we do not know the science, we think “The body is finished; therefore he’s dead.” Therefore you have to learn Bhagavad-gita—na jayate na mriyate va kadacit. Find out the verse. Hrdayananda:“For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.” Prabhupada: That’s it. So as a lawyer, when there is some dispute, you refer to the lawbook. Similarly, when there is dispute how the soul is immortal, the body is changing, you refer to Bhagavad-gita. You find it clear, na jayate na mriyate, clearly said. Explain? Hrdayananda: Purport? “Qualitatively, the small atomic fragmental part of the supreme spirit is one with the Supreme. He undergoes no changes like the body. Sometimes the soul is called the steady…” Prabhupada: (aside:) Just bring little salt. Hrdayananda: “…or kuta-stha. The body is subject to six kinds of transformations. It takes its birth in the womb of the mother’s body, remains for some time, grows, produces some effects, gradually dwindles, and at last vanishes into oblivion. The soul, however, does not go through such changes. The soul is not born, but, because he takes on a material body, the body takes its birth. The soul does not take birth there, and the soul does not die. Anything which has birth also has death. And because the soul has no birth, he therefore has no past, present or future. He is eternal, ever-existing and primeval—that is, there is no trace in history of his coming into being. Under the impression of the body, we seek the history of birth, etc., of the soul. The soul does not at any time become old, as the body does. The so-called old man therefore feels himself to be in the same spirit as in his childhood or youth. The changes of the body do not affect the soul. The soul does not deteriorate like a tree, nor anything material. The soul has no by-product either. The by-products of the body, namely children, are also different individual souls, and, owing to the body, they appear as children of a particular man. The body develops because of the soul’s presence, but the soul has neither offshoots nor change. Therefore, the soul is free from the six changes of the body. In the Katha Upanisad also we find a similar passage which reads: na jayate mriyate va vipascin nayam kutascin na babhuva kascit ajo nityah sasvato ’yam purano na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20] The meaning and purport of this verse is the same as in the Bhagavad-gita, but here in this verse there is one special word, vipascit, which means learned or with knowledge. The soul is full of knowledge, or full always with consciousness. Therefore, consciousness is the symptom of the soul. Even if one does not find the soul within the heart, where he is situated, one can still understand the presence of the soul simply by the presence of consciousness. Sometimes we do not find the sun in the sky owing to clouds, or for some other reason, but the light of the sun is always there, and we are convinced that it is therefore daytime. As soon as there is a little light in the sky early in the morning, we can understand that the sun is in the sky. Similarly, since there is some consciousness in all bodies—whether man or animal—we can understand the presence of the soul. This consciousness of the soul is, however, different from the consciousness of the Supreme, because the supreme consciousness is all-knowledge—past, present and future. The consciousness of the individual soul is prone to be forgetful. When he is forgetful of his real nature, he obtains education and enlightenment from the superior lessons of Krsna. But Krsna is not like the forgetful soul. If so, Krsna’s teachings of Bhagavad-gita would be useless. There are two kinds of souls— namely the minute particle soul, anu-atma, and the Supersoul, the vibhu-atma. This is also confirmed in the Katha Upanisad in this way: anor aniyan mahato mahiyan atmasya jantor nihito guhayam tam akratuh pasyati vita-soko dhatuh prasadan mahimanam atmanah ‘Both the Supersoul, Paramatma, and the atomic soul, jivatma, are situated on the same tree of the body within the same heart of the living being, and only one who has become free from all material desires as well as lamentations can, by the grace of the Supreme, understand the glories of the soul.’ Krsna is the fountainhead of the Supersoul also, as it will be disclosed in the following chapters, and Arjuna is the atomic soul, forgetful of his real nature; therefore he requires to be enlightened by Krsna, or by His bona fide representative, the spiritual master.” Prabhupada: If you have got any question upon this statement, the statement given in the Bhagavad-gita, in the purport we have explained? If you have got any question over it? Jay Warner: Excuse me, I didn’t… Hrdayananda: Do you have any question about what Prabhupada has written here, about the purport, any question? Jay Warner: I think I understood. Kirtanananda: That’s a beautiful purport. Prabhupada: Hm? Kirtanananda: That’s a nice purport. Prabhupada: Hm. Hrdayananda: Srila Prabhupada, I think we’re supposed to go for the movie. Prabhupada: Huh? Hrdayananda: I think we’re supposed to go for the movie. Prabhupada: Oh, when? Ramesvara: It is ready. It is…. Everything is prepared. (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
June 9, 1976, Los Angeles