Morning Walk Conversation Devotee (1): …use this land here now for our vehicles. We want to purchase it. Hari-sauri: That’s all our vehicles? Prabhupada: What price they want? Devotee (1): We haven’t started negotiating yet. Prabhupada: But they are willing. Devotee (1): They’re willing, they want to sell. Prabhupada: Up to this? Devotee (1): No, only up to that bridge. I can show you on the way back. Ambarisa: We’ve got some pictures we can show you later. Prabhupada: [break] …bicycle also? Ambarisa: Made where? Prabhupada: Bicycle? Cycle? Ambarisa: Do the car companies make bicycles? Prabhupada: No, some companies. Ambarisa: Oh, yes. Some they do here. Prabhupada: [break] …Indian Village? Ambarisa: It’s a section, a suburb, Indian Village. Actually, the old temple used to be in Indian Village. Prabhupada: That means all residents Indian? Ambarisa: No, it was actually, I think it was named for the American Indians. Prabhupada: Oh. Ambarisa: They used to live here. There was a settlement, the street that the old temple used to be on. [break] Did you purchase any land at Kuruksetra yet, Prabhupada? Prabhupada: The government is promising. Ambarisa: Oh, that’s good. Prabhupada: We have already applied for twenty-five acres. Mr. Candrali,(?) he wanted to make some profit out of it. Ambarisa: Yes. Devotee (1): I think you won the heart of that government official yesterday by saying that Krsna’s black and we worship Him. (laughter) He liked that. Prabhupada: (indistinct) Ambarisa: Yes, Detroit River, Prabhupada. Prabhupada: Big, big ships, they pass under this bridge? Ambarisa: No, on the other side of this island, there’s a channel, a freighter channel. That’s Canada over there, and this is a small island, Belle Isle. Hari-sauri: What is that project up ahead? Ambarisa: I guess…. It’s got problems. Prabhupada: What is that problem? Ambarisa: No, he was asking if they are…, big project, Renaissance Center. They are having some problems building it. (short conversation about where to stop) Devotee (1): Yes, this is where we are going to walk. Ambarisa: You should signal for him to stop then. Devotee (1): [break] …attract people back to the cities. It’s called the Renaissance Project. Prabhupada: What is that? Devotee (1): It’s, Ambarisa’s uncle, Henry Ford II, he is building, along with many different companies, a million dollar project. Prabhupada: Why not at Mayapura? Huh? Devotee (1): Ambarisa? I was explaining the Renaissance Project, and, ah, to try to attract people back to the city, they are building a million dollar project. Prabhupada said: “Why not Mayapura?” Ambarisa: Jaya. Prabhupada: Lake here dried up or what? Hari-sauri: Looks like it. Prabhupada: [break] …attracting men to the city. Devotee (1): Because everyone is leaving the city. Prabhupada: That is good. Hari-sauri: But not from an industrialist’s point of view. Ambarisa: The cities are simply becoming for the low-class people. Cities are simply filled now with the low-class people. No respectable people can walk safely in the streets. Devotee (1): In Detroit at five o’clock it becomes like a ghost town. No one walking. They are all afraid. If low-class people move into the buildings, everything becomes rundown, not kept up. So now they’re investing millions and millions of dollars to build new buildings, new stores, to make it attractive again. Prabhupada: They’ll not attempt to make the low-class men high class. Huh? Why they are lacking that point? Pusta Krsna: Actually the high-class man and the low-class man, their activities are the same. Simply they are living in bigger and smaller houses. They smoke the same cigarettes and they drink the same. Prabhupada: Therefore I say why not make them high class. Hari-sauri: There’s no high-class men to teach them. Prabhupada: We are there. Hari-sauri: Except for you, Srila Prabhupada. Just like that congressman yesterday, he was speaking, “I am a lawmaker.” But he admitted that they are simply patching up here and there wherever they can. [break] Devotee (1): Ambarisa? Somebody? Know what this building is? Ambarisa: No, I don’t know this park very well. It’s a casino. Devotee (1): It’s a gambling house, Srila Prabhupada. (laughter) Prabhupada: (indistinct). Dhrstadyumna: I’ve been visiting your buses, Srila Prabhupada, and managing the book distribution with the buses. It’s going very nicely. Ever since Mayapura all the boys have doubled their collection and distribution. And as soon as all the debts from New York temple are paid, then more and more books can go. We’ll try to do everything. [break] The men are just like the army. The van leaders, bus leaders. So everything is very efficient, clean, and very high-powered. [break] …just two years ago, when we left India, that you wanted an army of sannyasis and brahmacaris always traveling, distributing books. Prabhupada: (looking at plaque) Commissioners? Hari-sauri: Commissioners of Parks and Boulevards, William Livingston Jr., President; Fred Gunter, Vice-President. Ambarisa: Sperimus meliora. Hari-sauri: (indistinct) generibus. Some Latin inscription on the bridge. Ambarisa: It means to increase their happiness they have built this park. Melior means increased happiness. Prabhupada: [break] …Krsna there is no happiness. All imagination. Hari-sauri: Moghasa mogha-karmanah. Prabhupada: We shall go this way? Ambarisa: This way’s OK. Satsvarupa: …soldier. A hundred years ago when the north fought the south. This is some memorial. [break] Devotee (2): …devotional service is transcendental to the modes of material nature. That’s from the very moment that one first begins to render devotional service? Or gradually? From the first very moment? Prabhupada: Yes. [break] Devotee (2): …of devotional service in the modes of material nature, there’s no such thing. Prabhupada: No. Means if you do not follow the regulative principles, then it is mixed. Satsvarupa: Sometimes devotees think that in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, when Lord Kapila teaches there is devotional service in ignorance and in passion and in goodness, that that may mean your own disciples too. But then some devotees say “No, we’re above that designation. It’s not mixed devotional service, even though we’re neophytes.” Prabhupada: If you voluntarily do not follow, then you fall down. That is in ignorance. Devotee (2): So where that is described in the Third Canto, Part Four, where it is described about devotional service in ignorance, passion, and goodness, and so forth, that has nothing to do with your disciples then? Prabhupada: Who is my disciple? First of all let him follow strictly the disciplined rules. Devotee (2): As long as one is following, then he is… Prabhupada: Then he is all right. Devotee (2): …above those lower levels. Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Otherwise, why there is need of regulative principles? He is immediately liberated. If he thinks that “Because I have taken to, I am liberated,” then why the rules and regulations? Devotee (2): But as long as he follows the rules and regulations. Prabhupada: Yes. Devotee (2): [break] …the brahma-bhutah platform, brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54], immediately? Prabhupada: Yes. Bhagavad-gita it is said mam ca yo ’vyabhicarena [Bg. 14.26], unalloyed. Bhakti-yogena sevate, then he’s liberated. If it is vyabhicarena, sometimes falls down, sometimes…, then it is within sattva-guna, rajo-guna, tamo-guna. The word is mam ca yah avyabhicarena bhakti-yogena, pure bhakti. Hari-sauri: Without any falldown. Devotee (2): Falldown means deviation from the orders of the spiritual master. Prabhupada: Yes, that is vyabhicarena, that is not avyabhicarena. If you are subjected to the attraction of maya, that is vyabhicarena. Devotee (2): If somebody is following the instructions, but if there’s attraction for maya… Prabhupada: That cannot be. Maybe in the beginning due to past habits, but that must be nil very soon. Otherwise he’s not following. Just like fan switched off may move for a little, but not that it will go on moving. Must stop. Switch is off. And if it is going on, then the switch is not yet off. [break] Devotee (2): A devotee is sometimes subject to hankering or lamentation. That is material though, isn’t it? Prabhupada: Yes. Devotee (2): In other words, if, at that moment, if he desires something other than Krsna, that’s a material desire. Prabhupada: Then he has to learn it. So long one is not competent in that position, he’s subjected, he may fall down. What is that temple light? Devotee (2): That’s a fountain. Prabhupada: It is just like Jagannatha temple. Hari-sauri: That, right in the distance there with the light on the top. Yeah, same design. [break] Devotee (2): …after us anymore because they don’t have the money. Prabhupada: Detroit has got no money? Such a big industrial city. Neglected. They have got money. Hari-sauri: They’re not keeping this park up very well. Prabhupada: No. Because nobody comes here. Hari-sauri: Too dangerous. Prabhupada: Accha? Hari-sauri: Many of the big parks in the big cities, they are full of thieves and all kinds of other people. Prabhupada: That means they cannot improve the condition of the people. Just like at the airport, everyone is checked. There is no gentlemen. Why everyone is checked? That means the whole mass of people, they’re all rogues and thieves. Therefore it is necessary to keep an ideal, an ideal class of men brahmanas. Then people will follow. But there is no such…. Everyone is coolie. That’s all. Everyone is. They are making everyone coolie. Coolie civilization. One officer came to see me in Perth, Australia. So I told him, this is a civilization of fourth-class men. You remember? Devotee (2): We heard the tape. Prabhupada: Yes. (laughs) Devotee (2): You said there must be an ideal class of men. Prabhupada: There is no ideal class of men. All fourth class, fifth class, tenth class. Srutakirti: He accepted it also. Prabhupada: Oh, you were present. Srutakirti: Yes. At the finish he said, “Now I’m going back to my fourth-class friends.” Prabhupada: Yes. Devotee (2): This man last night also, he admitted. Prabhupada: There is no first-class men. All fourth-class men. They do not know what is first-class men. If one has got money, then he’s all right. That is Kali-yuga. No qualification. But if you have got money, then it is all right. You are big man. Money’s everything at the present moment. People, they are trying to accumulate money by all means. Never mind first class, second class, third class, bring money any way. Rather, if one does not drink, he’s a third-class man. And if one drinks, he’s first-class man. Civilized. In India, formerly, any gentleman comes, a glass of water or two sandesa was given. Now that is rejected. If a gentleman is not offered a bag(?) of wine and some chicken, then it is not proper reception. [break] …building? Devotee (2): It’s an office building, a big one in Renaissance Center. Those ones to your left are under construction. Prabhupada: Oh, templelike. Devotee (2): Templelike, but it is an office building. Those are the buildings they are building their Renaissance Center. They’re going to be very tall. Prabhupada: [break] (in car) These people waste money. Devotee (2): Frivolousness. Prabhupada: Childish. They do not know the value of life. Hari-sauri: These parks are not very regularly attended. Prabhupada: Hmm. Hari-sauri: Very dirty and overgrown. [break] Prabhupada: …the Indian park. Not like American park. Hari-sauri: Living in the city is a very fearful existence. Prabhupada: (indistinct) …construction is. Nobody knows when it will be finished. Devotee (1): Now they build a building, now they are building so that they will only last for twenty years or so, and then they will tear it down and build new ones. Ambarisa: In Boston, they built a very tall building, and already it’s sinking. And the windows are falling out, and it cannot be used. Millions of dollars they spent on this building. [break] Devotee (1): …percentage of unemployment in the city. They are always trying to make new jobs for the people because there are so many people not working. And then they claim welfare and the state supports them. Prabhupada: Hmm? Devotee (1): The state supports them by welfare. So they are just idle and getting money from the government, and then they just cause trouble. [break] Prabhupada: …storefront building? Devotee (1): Yes, this is a black area. The black people move in… Ambarisa: This used to be actually the best street in Detroit. About maybe seventy-five years ago, all the wealthy people lived on this street, Jefferson Avenue, and then the black people moved in and took over, and then all their businesses, they went out of business, and now it’s all boarded up. Very dangerous place. All the white people in the suburbs, they live in fear of all the black people in the city. Prabhupada: The government cannot manage? Ambarisa: No. The mayor is black. The police they cannot do anything. Devotee (4): The police force is also becoming black. He’s putting black men in charge of every department of the city, and they’re mismanaging everything. Prabhupada: There is possibility of another civil war? Ambarisa: Yes. Possibly some sort of a race war or something. In Boston, they have a lot of trouble because of this bussing. They bus the black children into the white neighborhoods to go to school to achieve equal education, and the white communities do not like this. In Boston there has been a lot of violence between the black people and the white people. Very much hatred, very much hate each other. Prabhupada: So only remedy is Krsna consciousness. Ambarisa: Yes. About a month ago there was a black lawyer, and he was walking out of the City Hall in Boston, and some white people beat him with an American flag. They beat him with an American flag and hurt him very badly, and this caused very much… Prabhupada: Commotion. Ambarisa: Yes. Prabhupada: There is hatred within. Artificially they have given equal rights. [break] Devotee (4): …because in bad neighborhood, [break] (continues onboard bus) Prabhupada: …two vans. Satsvarupa: Besides this, well, we have so many more. Ghanasyama and the men in the library party, they have three vans, and then the men who finance their travels, they have two vans, so that’s another five. Prabhupada: Along with this van, another van goes? Satsvarupa: Yes. And since we have this and the Deity worship, the collecting has increased and the book distribution, because now they’re more regulated and it’s not so difficult. Pusta Krsna: They have a kitchen in the back, Srila Prabhupada. And a shower and toilet, a sink. It’s complete. Prabhupada: Small house. Pusta Krsna: Yes, traveling. Prabhupada: This is fulfilling Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s desire: prthivite ache yata nagaradi-grama. Go to every village and town. So you are doing very nice to satisfy the Lord. He wanted this. Prthivite nagaradi—all over the world. So when He meant all over the world, naturally He meant all the people of the world. Why Indian? Prthivite ache yata nagaradi-grama, it will include all the villages, towns, all over the world. That means all people of the world should take up this. Bharata-bhumite haila manusya-janma yara [Cc. Adi 9.41] The Indians’ duty is to carry the message, give it to the other people, and then they’ll do. [break] …a worldwide movement, not any particular. They may not misunderstand that this is Indian or Hindu. It is not that. Krsna is meant for everyone. So, we shall have to go? Devotees: Yes. Prabhupada: First class, everything is first class. Satsvarupa: They have all your books here too, Srila Prabhupada. All your books are here. (kirtana starts) Prabhupada: Yes. Satsvarupa: …full of your tapes. (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
June 13, 1976, Detroit