Room Conversation Hari-sauri: The following is a conversation held in Srila Prabhupada’s room regarding the starting up of yoga courses for tourists in Vrndavana and Bombay. Prabhupada: There are… Just note down. Gopala Krsna: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada: No, if you teach yoga system, they’ll pay for that? Gopala Krsna: This is how it’s going to work. We are going to give them free yoga lessons. They will come in our guesthouse and live there. But we have already increased the rate of the room. Prabhupada: That is not good. Gopala Krsna: No, this is how all these yoga camps are working. They make their money from the rest, from the rent. Prabhupada: One who is not going to learn yoga system, then they have to pay increased rate. Gopala Krsna: No. This is an extra facility. In other words… Prabhupada: No, extra facility is… Somebody may be interested in learning yoga, others may not be. So why he should pay more? Gopala Krsna: Well we can charge them little more. I am just saying how the other establishments are running because this is the big attraction to get people, and almost every foreigner will be interested in this. This is like… It’s not that they are really getting it free because we are covering ourselves by increasing the rates and the restaurant… Prabhupada: You are covering, but those who are not interested, why they should pay more? That is my point. Gopala Krsna: No. But… Yes… But the answer is, we have established a double pricing system, for all foreigners are paying fifteen rupees for single room, twenty-five for double. And the Indians are paying eight and fifteen. Prabhupada: When they understand that you have got such discrimination, they are dissatisfied. Gopala Krsna: No, what we have done, we have added in various different points like extra bedsheet, one rupee, extra this… We have added in these extra points. So the total does come to fifteen and twenty. I have spoken to all the travel agencies, and they are willing to go along with us. In fact, they think that fifteen and twenty-five is very cheap. But I then explain to them that we can’t make it any more because we are in competition with… Prabhupada: But you don’t get customer even lesser than that. First of all see your position. You may calculate in the mind that “This is cheap, this is not,” but cheap or no cheap, you are not getting any customers. (chuckling) Gopala Krsna: No, because we never went after the tourist traffic. We have just started going after this foreign traffic with these brochures, and now we have… Prabhupada: And now, in the Sixth Chapter there are forty-seven verses. So divide forty-seven with seven. Gopala Krsna: That’s seven. Hari-sauri: Seven. Jagadisa: Almost seven. Hari-sauri: You want to do like seven verses a day? Prabhupada: Yes. Gopala Krsna: Oh, we can do seven verses a day. Prabhupada: Forty-seven verses should be divided by seven. So daily seven verses, average, one class. Gopala Krsna: One hour class? Jagadisa: No, you said three hours a day. Gopala Krsna: Yes, but that… It doesn’t have to be spread out. This is… Prabhupada: One hour… To explain seven verses may take more than one hour. It will take not less than two hours. Gopala Krsna: We want to have, in total, three hours of total yoga a day, including practice and class, like two hours in the morning, one hour in the evening. Prabhupada: So practice two hours and one hour class. And the yoga class, they should be given the seat caila, jina, ajina, kusottaram. Seat. One straw… That… What is called? Kusa… Gopala Krsna: Kusa grass. Prabhupada: Kusa grass. Kusasana, very nice, nice, and broad, especially. Upon this, there is a deerskin. Gopala Krsna: We should get deerskin also? Prabhupada: And how you will get? Why you are asking this nonsense question? Unless you get, why you waste time in that way? Where is…? Have you got? This is extra question. You must get. So, first of all this kusasana, then the deerskin and then a linen. Cailajina… Hari-sauri: Caila, agna, ajina, sutaram,(?) kusottaram. Prabhupada: Kusottaram means upon the kusasana these, ajina, caila, caila… What is caila? Hari-sauri: Caila, ajina, soft cloth and deerskin. Gopala Krsna: So kusa, deerskin, soft cloth. Jagadisa: Cotton cloth? Prabhupada: Yes. Gopala Krsna: It should be of cotton. Prabhupada: Asana, soft asana. First of all, this kusasana, then the deerskin and then one… Gopala Krsna: Soft cloth. This will be excellent because nobody else is teaching yoga this way. Prabhupada: No. So they will sit down and perpendicularly. Perpendicularly, if you sit in this way, then you will automatically you become perfect yogi. Automatically. This should be practiced. In every class they should sit down with like this, like this, and they will not close the eyes but half-closed and see here. Hari-sauri: Staring at the tip of the nose. Jagadisa: They supposed to look cross-eyed? In order to look at the tip of the nose… Prabhupada: That’s all. Jagadisa: …you have to look cross-eyed? Prabhupada: Why cross? You see, just easy, simply. That’s all. This… Gopala Krsna: They can sit straight and also look. Prabhupada: Yes. This has to be practiced. And then they should be given lesson on six or seven verses very elaborately, and they will hear. Gopala Krsna: They should sit like this, and then they should hear. Prabhupada: So simple thing. Gopala Krsna: But they may want… Prabhupada: So one, first, seven sloka they’ll hear, then next class, they’ll go to the next, in the next class, and next class, next class. In this way, one after another, within seven days they’ll get the whole lesson. Gopala Krsna: So if we want to have three hours total. Even in the class… Prabhupada: Two hours. Gopala Krsna: …they should be sitting like this, isn’t it? Prabhupada: Yes. Gopala Krsna: So, in other words, the total three hours that they have to be like this… Prabhupada: Not total three hours. Gopala Krsna: Then what will they do in the third hour? Hari-sauri: Well, I was thinking that… Prabhupada: There is no “I was thinking.” This is nonsense. We must do according to the… Hari-sauri: But can’t we bring chanting of japa into it? Gopala Krsna: Mantra-yoga. Prabhupada: Yes. Hari-sauri: That was my idea, that they should chant half an hour japa before class, and then sit in the posture and then have the philosophy because the chanting… First of all explain the purpose of chanting to fix the mind; then, once they’ve chanted, then they can sit and listen, and because they’ve chanted, they’ll be that much more attentive. Prabhupada: Yes, that’s good idea. That’s good idea. First chanting, second chanting. Gopala Krsna: First chant half an hour… Prabhupada: Then lesson, take lesson. And then chant another… Hari-sauri: Then, after that, some kirtana. Prabhupada: Yes. Hari-sauri: Japa first, then class and then kirtana. Prabhupada: At last kirtana. Hari-sauri: That would be like half an hour, an hour. Prabhupada: And the class will be changed—first seven verses explain. Next verse, next seven… In this way, today this room, next day that room, next day that room, next day that room. Room. That will be class, not in the same. Because if somebody is hearing the first seven slokas, then how the who are on the second seven slokas… Hari-sauri: Oh, your idea is the class will go simultaneously. Prabhupada: Yes. So in this way we have to occupy seven rooms, big rooms. Gopala Krsna: But this means we have to have seven teachers also. Prabhupada: Yes. Gopala Krsna: So what we have to do, we’ll have to have courses starting every Monday. So suppose I come in on Saturday I have to wait till Monday for the course to start. Prabhupada: No, why? Why? Gopala Krsna: Because we do not have, realistically speaking, seven qualified teachers. Prabhupada: Why? What is the qualification? They cannot read Bhagavad-gita? Gopala Krsna: Well, at least you need some intelligence. Like… Prabhupada: But if we are scarcity of such intelligent men, then close it. What is this nonsense? Gopala Krsna: Also you have to be a good speaker to keep people’s attention. Prabhupada: So that will depend on practice. You practice it. Gopala Krsna: Because the people who come are very sophisticated. Prabhupada: That’s all right. Then why…? You become expert. If you cannot find out seven men, then what is this institution? Anyway, one may not be very expert, but he should practice how to explain. The explanation is there. He has to simply do it very nicely, that’s all. Everything is there. And the students should sit down in that way here. That’s all. It’s not at all difficult. Jagadisa: Usually the yoga camps begin on a certain date and finish on a certain date. Prabhupada: Eh? Jagadisa: Usually the yoga camps advertise to begin lessons on a certain date and finish by a certain date. Prabhupada: That is seven days. Jagadisa: Yes. But they don’t stagger it. Hari-sauri: They don’t stagger the course, yes. See, if he arranges with, say, like… Gopala Krsna: Courses start every Monday. Hari-sauri: Then they’ll advertise that there’s a course starting every Monday and finishing every Sunday, like that. And then they’ll book in accordance so that they’ll arrive on a Monday and they’ll drive out on Sunday night or… Prabhupada: Yes, that’s all right. But what is the difficulty? He is… On Monday he is hearing in one room, and Tuesday another room, and Thursday another room. So where is the difficulty? Gopala Krsna: Also, this way we have to reserve seven rooms. Prabhupada: Yes. Gopala Krsna: But this way, if we have courses Monday to Sunday, we can have one big hall, just keep one hall for yoga class. Prabhupada: I mean you cannot give two kinds of classes in one room. That is not possible. That is nonsense. Even if you have got one student, he must be in that particular class. You cannot hold all the classes in one room, no, you have to… No, for seven days you have to give seven rooms, even there is one student. Gopala Krsna: Even if it is the same class… It’s not going to be a different class. Prabhupada: Yes. Different verses we shall explain. It is different class. Gopala Krsna: Yes. Prabhupada: We explain seven verses from Bhagavad-gita on Monday. And the next seven verses will be in the next room, and those who are beginning, they will be in the first room. Hari-sauri: Yes, that’s if you have two or three batches of tourists coming in at different times. But his idea was that all the tourists would come at one time and go through the course and then leave. And then a new batch would come. Gopala Krsna: And if they came on Saturday for example… Prabhupada: No, why don’t you understand? Why you are dull- headed? The one class is for one set of verses. Where is the difficulty? [break] …so in the same class, it will be not good. Gopala Krsna: But we will not have a person in the next… Prabhupada: No, you have or not have, you have to make this arrangement. In one room one set of verses you should explain. Otherwise, if some student comes, first set of verses explained, and he comes, so you cannot explain the same verses to somebody and next verses somebody in the same class. That is not good. Gopala Krsna: No. Our program, therefore, to avoid this, Srila Prabhupada, is that our courses will start every Monday, end every Sunday. Prabhupada: Your course will start every Monday? What do you mean by that? Through first… First six verses… Gopala Krsna: Will be done on Monday. Prabhupada: That’s all. Next six verses, Tuesday. Gopala Krsna: On Tuesday. So like this, it will go on. So suppose I am a tourist, and I come to the guesthouse on Wednesday. So I will wait in the guesthouse till Sunday. Prabhupada: No! Gopala Krsna: I will start my next class next Monday. Prabhupada: No, no, no. That is your dull brain. On Wednesday also, the first class is going on. Hari-sauri: Yes, I understand what you want. Prabhupada: So why he has to wait? Hari-sauri: All seven classes have to go on simultaneously every day. Prabhupada: Yes! Yes. But you are so fertile brain you cannot understand. Why he has to wait? Gopala Krsna: Because… Jagadisa: We can understand. Hari-sauri: He’s not expecting that so many people… Prabhupada: Every class is going on every day. Those who are coming new, they take first lesson in the first room. Gopala Krsna: Yes, I follow… Prabhupada: So either it is Wednesday or Monday, it doesn’t matter. Gopala Krsna: There are three problems that I… Prabhupada: What is that problem? Gopala Krsna: First problem is, we’ll have to reserve seven rooms… Prabhupada: Yes. Gopala Krsna: …and lose money. Prabhupada: No lose money. Jagadisa: There are rooms in the gurukula. Gopala Krsna: Yes, but that cannot be used for tourists at the moment. Prabhupada: No, no. Why cannot be used? Gopala Krsna: A gurukula room? They are not ready for use. The people who come… Prabhupada: Well, it will be finished by the time your customers… Hari-sauri: Your tourist traffic is not going to come immediately. Gopala Krsna: These are the months now, December, January, February… Prabhupada: All right, it has to be done like that, that all classes are going on every day. One who comes on Wednesday, it does not mean he has to wait. The class is there. It doesn’t matter Wednesday or Friday. Next day he goes there, next class, next day he goes, next class. The difficulty may be that we have to set aside seven rooms. That we have got, room. Gopala Krsna: That we have in the gurukula building… Prabhupada: Yes. Gopala Krsna: …but not at the moment. Prabhupada: No, no. gurukula building. Gopala Krsna: Yes. And also… Prabhupada: Gurukula building is meant for instruction. And the guesthouse is meant for boarding and lodging. That’s all. Gopala Krsna: But we wanted to take advantage of it in a month or so, like the tourists… Prabhupada: By month, it will be done. The gurukula downstairs will be ready. Hari-sauri: There must be some rooms suitable by a month. Prabhupada: If not, for the temporary you can hold somewhere. That doesn’t matter. But the system will be this education will be given in the gurukula building. Gopala Krsna: Okay. Now, we’re also going to do this in Bombay, Srila Prabhupada because… Prabhupada: But first of all, you make one successful here. Then you think of other. Gopala Krsna: But now we should not teach them any exercise at all? Prabhupada: This is exercise. If he sits down two hours like that, it is more than exercise. Gopala Krsna: But this may not satisfy them. They may want to do… Prabhupada: No, we are not going to satisfy them. This is our… This is our process. If you want to learn, then we have to learn according to Bhagavad-gita. We are not going to flatter you. Hari-sauri: If we explain that the whole purpose of the exercises… Prabhupada: That is the explanation required. Gopala Krsna: Is to concentrate, and by concentration your health will improve. Hari-sauri: The idea is to tone the body so the senses are subdued. Prabhupada: Yes. Hari-sauri: So we engage their senses in kirtana. Prabhupada: That is the actual fact. You read that portion. Jagadisa: They are coming to India to learn yoga, right? What is the perfection of yoga? Krsna consciousness. Gopala Krsna: Yes, but they… Prabhupada: They cannot dictate. That is not… Hari-sauri: If they want exercise, we can stand them up, arms in the air, they can dance and they can chant. Prabhupada: Yes. Gopala Krsna: We’ll make the kirtana so ecstatic that they are jumping. Prabhupada: Yes, he can dance. He can dance. Hari-sauri: Then they jump and then… Prabhupada: Dance and chant. This is best exercise. We allow them to dance very… Yes. High jump. Actually that is exercise and, at the same time ecstasy. If they dance and chant Hare Krsna, it is automatically a very big exercise and spiritual advancement. Yes. Yes. There is no doubt about it. If he chants and dances, immediately he become ecstatic. Hari-sauri: Breathing is there. Prabhupada: Ah! Yes. Hari-sauri: Everything is there. Gopala Krsna: Of course, that why… It depends on the teacher. If the teacher is a very good speaker and preacher, he can, right in the introduction, point out how this yoga is different from the other yogas which are bogus. Prabhupada: Don’t say it is different. It is the authorized. Hari-sauri: There’s no need to mention anything else. Prabhupada: It is authorized, and it is taught by Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Others are unauthorized. This is authorized. And that’s a fact. This is authorized. And others, those, they are manufactured. Just like they have manufa… Gopala Krsna: It is authorized in the Bhagavad-gita. Prabhupada: In every… Bhagavad… This is Vedic. Bhagavad-gita means the words of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And which other way can be authorized way? You have to impress that upon. Jagadisa: That’s two hours. Gopala Krsna: Yes. Another one hour… Prabhupada: Chanting, dancing. Gopala Krsna: Actually… Prabhupada: They haven’t got to attend other classes. Let them chant and dance, kirtana, other one hour. Because here is the class. They’ll simply sit down in that yogic posture and hear. That’s all. You explain. Gopala Krsna: These people are… I understand this… Jagadisa: No, they have a misconception what yoga is. Gopala Krsna: I know, I know. But if we want to get repeat business… Prabhupada: No no, we are not after business. This is our… Hari-sauri: Our program is the most attractive. Prabhupada: Yes. Hari-sauri: When they go to these yoga classes; they don’t get anything. Prabhupada: We are not going to flatter them. If you want to learn, you have to learn according to the authorized way. Jagadisa: The appeal of these other groups is sex. We’re not interested in that. Gopala Krsna: No I’m not saying sex. Jagadisa: Well, it is. That’s how they’re appealing. Hari-sauri: Their whole platform is bogus then. Prabhupada: They are all bogus. Bogus. We are not going to follow the bogus. At least in these seven days they must not have any sex. Then he will be all right. They’ll get some benefit. Hari-sauri: Yes. That’s described here also. That will come out automatically in the class, that one has to sit… Prabhupada: They will have to take thrice bath and eat frugally, not voraciously. If they want real treatment, that will benefit them. If they have got some ideas of yoga and we have to cheat them, that is impossible. Jagadisa: Why should we have to cheat them? Prabhupada: They want to be cheated but we cannot cheat. For getting some customer you have to flatter them—that is not possible. And while explaining the slokas, you have to stress on this point, that this is bona fide; all others are cheating. That requires on your preaching power. Hari-sauri: Actually I was reading through your purports in this chapter the other day, and everything, every aspect, is completely explained in the purports. If one carefully reads this chapter then there’s no problem. You just preach whatever is there. Gopala Krsna: What we could do is… I mean you may not like this… Publish a small booklet just based on the Sixth Chapter. Prabhupada: Yes. Gopala Krsna: Just publish the Sixth Chapter, that this is our booklet on yoga. Prabhupada: No, you can make a booklet, the Sixth Chapter explained, and posture, how to sit. That sitting down, that will attract. Gopala Krsna: Because they want to see these things. Prabhupada: That sitting posture will attract them. Give them figure, “This is the posture of sitting,” and they will hear. Gopala Krsna: What we can do, have a small booklet on yoga… Prabhupada: Concentrate on visnu-murti here, in the heart, and hear… This will immediately give some effect. Gopala Krsna: Or… Yes. We can have some pictures of people. And we’ll publish your Sixth Chapter, like, just like publishing Sixth Chapter of the Gita with a two-page introduction how this yoga is different from others and this is a guide, the Sixth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gita, the most ancient Hindu scripture, Indian scripture. Prabhupada: So keep some price for that. Gopala Krsna: Yes. That will be like a separate book, five rupees, with some illustrations… Prabhupada: Make that. Gopala Krsna: And then like we can have some… People are very much into beads… Prabhupada: And dancing. Gopala Krsna: So we’ll have some neckbeads they’ll take with a small statue, Deity, pendant of Visnu. Prabhupada: So then there is one artist. He has come to paint pictures. Explain. He will give you. Yes. Gopala Krsna: Yes. Oh, yes, very good. Prabhupada: Yes. Gopala Krsna: And plus he can do that for the new brochure also. We can have like a necklace with a pendant of Visnu, four-handed, to meditate. Hari-sauri: We have a proper shelf there which will supply harinama cadara, beads, beadbag, everything. Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Yes. Take this idea. Note down. First of all make this brochure. Gopala Krsna: Yes. That brochure which I made on Vrndavana, just one page, I’m taking up, Vrndavana and other temple pictures, and putting in a section on yoga. Prabhupada: So see how you have done. Hari-sauri: If we don’t have our own shop there which sells everything, then they’ll just go down Loi Bazaar and buy it. Prabhupada: No, we have our own shop and… Gopala Krsna: Yes, we are having our own shop now in the gurukula. We are having it before the festival. We are having that before the festival. Hari-sauri: It should be open for this course. Prabhupada: Another thing, that… I don’t think they are very serious, that… They have paid that 250 rupees rate? This bank? They wrote they are going to pay. Gopala Krsna: Yes. Last I heard when I left is they had got their approval to pay two hundred rupees, but they haven’t paid so far. Prabhupada: No, they have written 250. Gopala Krsna: They wrote 250? Visvambhara told me… Hari-sauri: I saw that letter, yes. Prabhupada: Yes. Hari-sauri: 250. Gopala Krsna: Actually that room is a very good room. Prabhupada: Where is that letter? Bank’s letter. Hari-sauri: From Gupta. Prabhupada: From Gupta, bank letter, Hyderabad. Gopala Krsna: Which Gupta? The accountant of Punjab National… Prabhupada: Yes. I have replied that letter on the other day. You do not know? Gopala Krsna: Did you want us to use that room? The room in which the bank is? Jagadisa: Oh yes. You mean about the rent? Prabhupada: Yes. Jagadisa: Yes, he said 250. Prabhupada: Yes. Find out that letter. Hari-sauri: There’s a reply to it too. Prabhupada: Where is the letter? Hari-sauri: He says there’s going to be women coming… Prabhupada: But there is no instruction. For women there is no such thing. Hari-sauri: No women on the course. Gopala Krsna: No women? Prabhupada: That is bogus, another bogus. Gopala Krsna: That’s bogus. But we have a lot of women who are coming to India for yoga. Half… The traffic is half men, half women. Prabhupada: Women cannot do it. Gopala Krsna: And a lot of the tourists who come, they are husband, wife and all together. Why don’t we let them wear normal dress but have men and women in the same class. Hari-sauri: We could… It’s just a suggestion, but what about if you have… Prabhupada: Normal dress, that is standard. Gopala Krsna: Or yoga pants. They can have pajamas and kurtas. Hari-sauri: A separate woman’s class? But that means, yes. That means you have to have women teachers. Prabhupada: These are artificial things. Hari-sauri: Mixed class, but… Prabhupada: For woman there is no… Jagadisa: I think we should avoid women altogether. Avoid women altogether? Prabhupada: Women, it is only possible in our Vaisnava bhakti-yoga— women and men can be given equal right. There is no other system. Gopala Krsna: They can wear a normal dress. Hari-sauri: If they wear those big robes… Sometimes I see… It’s a one-piece thing. It comes down to their ankles. If they wear something like that, it’s all right. Gopala Krsna: Because they want to do something different. They want to see different things. If we give them a pajama and kurta, we’ll still make them do bhakti-yoga, but it’s… Prabhupada: Bhakti-yoga, chanting, dancing there will be. They can join. Gopala Krsna: Yes, but… Prabhupada: But they cannot practice. They cannot sit down like this, the women. They’ll be tired. This is real practice. Gopala Krsna: I think even the men… Prabhupada: Yogasana. Yogasana, dhyana, dharana, asana. Gopala Krsna: That’s so then we can show them, “See this yoga is…,” because it appears a little difficult, it is the best form of yoga. It’s not something easy that you can just do in one second. Jagadisa: So what’s the conclusion? Gopala Krsna: They will sit together. Jagadisa: So he says… He thinks the conclusion is that the women will be in the class. Prabhupada: There, but in plain dress. Yes, man must be there. Gopala Krsna: Plain dress or if they wear dresses, they can have pant-kurta pajamas. Prabhupada: Why pant? Hari-sauri: They can wear a long robe. That’s better, like one of those complete robes. Prabhupada: Yes, long robe. Hari-sauri: Rajneesh people wear them. Prabhupada: These Hare Krsna namavali robe. Gopala Krsna: Oh, very good idea. We can make Hare Krsna… Hari-sauri: Out of a namavali, yeah. Nama cadara. Harinama cadara. Prabhupada: You can have some robe… Gopala Krsna: Yeah, we can have… Prabhupada: …some covering. Gopala Krsna: Yes, this will be very good. This will really make us look different from others. We’re giving kusa grass, linen, and robe, beads… Prabhupada: And they will understand that they are actually doing something. Gopala Krsna: Yes. And they will see, because these karmis, they look for these tangible differences. Prabhupada: At least twice taking bath and then chanting, dancing and so on. Hari-sauri: Yes. They’re coming for some… Just to… Prabhupada: They want something. So this is the bona fide method. Jagadisa: Are you having tours where they’ll go to Radha-kunda? Gopala Krsna: Yes. That is during the rest of the time. Hari-sauri: There’s a very nice thing about this program, is that you can guarantee everyone who comes is going to be interested. Prabhupada: So I have given to you three. Now you jointly do immediately. The artist is there. Get painting. That’s… That’s all right. Hari-sauri: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
December 27, 1976, Bombay