Room Conversation Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. What he will do, more payment? (?) Then he will kill. This sex life in this material world is so strong, even in the heavenly planets. Big, big rsis. Sex life with animals also there is… Sex life is so strong. Man cohabiting with animal. It makes blind. Vyasadeva made one of her (his) students pregnant, what to speak of ourselves. Vyasadeva was born, Satyavati. She was low class. Although she was born by a king, but her mother was a low-class fisherwoman. And the fisherman raised her as daughter. And Parasara Muni became attracted. And Vyasadeva was born. Sex affairs, just see, in the highest circle. Brhaspati, the spiritual master of the devatas, he became so much mad for his brother’s wife who was pregnant, and forcibly they had sex. Just see. These are examples. Brahma became attracted with his daughter. Lord Siva became attracted with the beauty of Mohini-murti, even in the presence of his wife. So this sex life can be controlled only by becoming Krsna conscious. Otherwise there is no… The Bhagavata has discussed all this because in this material world there is no escape unless we become Krsna conscious, from the sex impulse. It is not possible. Yad-avadhi mama cetah krsna… When one is fully Krsna conscious, then he’ll reject all this nonsense: “What is this?” Bhavati mukha-vikarah susthu. He’ll spite (spit): “Eh! Get out. Is that enjoyment?” It is possible for a Krsna conscious… No other can do it. And that is the bondage. He’ll have to work hard for maintaining sex issues. And so long you are bound up by the karmas, you have to accept another body and then continue. Who knows this how we are bound up and conditioned? If you talk in the modern society they will laugh: “What nonsense this man is… ‘By sex life one becomes conditioned.’ ” They cannot understand. Hare Krsna… (japa) This should be strictly outlawed, no more sannyasis. And those sannyasis who have fallen, you get them married, live like a… No more this showbottle, cheating. It is very ludicrous. Even there is a promise that “We shall not fall down again,” that is also not believable. What is the use? Better go and speak philosophy in your grhastha dress, not this dress, but you have nice coat, pants, gentleman. Who says no? I never said. Rather I shall be glad to see that up-to-date gentlemen with tilaka and sikha are speaking. That is very prestigious everywhere. Why this false dress? What is the wrong to become grhastha? I was grhastha, paka caliber grhastha. My Guru Maharaja was brahmacari, This is ever… Just see his character. Caitanya Mahaprabhu was grhastha, but when He took sannyasa: “Oh, I am now…” For sober person. That is wanted. That is ideal. He married twice. Bhaktivinoda Thakura married twice. Caitanya Mahaprabhu married twice. What is the wrong there? One has to become pure devotee, that’s all. Other things, of course, are circumstantially favorable, either a grhastha, brahmacari or vanaprastha or sannyasa. Kiba vipra kiba sudra nyasi kene naya, yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei ‘guru’ haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. You must know the science of Krsna consciousness. That makes you guru, not this dress. So what you are thinking of American program? Do it seriously. Balavanta is very expert. And all of you are expert. And do it seriously and systematically, not change the position, this side and this, change. That’s not good. That makes fickle. Strength of mind wanted. Jagadisa: Prabhupada, I was thinking of taking books, going from town to town, and finding interested people and then… Prabhupada: Everyone will be interested. Jagadisa: Yes. And stay for some time in one place, find some local people, train them up cooking… Prabhupada: Yes. Yes, that is good. Jagadisa: …kirtana, speaking, reading the books… Prabhupada: Oh, yes. That is wanted. Jagadisa: …and let them set up a small center in their house or purchase one storefront. Prabhupada: If one is convinced about this favorably, that is success. It doesn’t matter what dress. Let him teach his family, and the neighborhood. Let them do their own business. It doesn’t matter. That is… Let them understand Krsna, Krsna science. That is wanted. Do that program. Make that program. He is coming, Ramesvara. Take to it very seriously. [break] I can cycle even now. In our childhood… I had car, but my nephew was driving. I never drove. In 1925, I purchased one Buick car. Trivikrama: Buick? It’s a good car. Prabhupada: At that time in India it was eight thousand rupees only, very strong car. Trivikrama: From America it came? Prabhupada: Yes, American cars were selling during British days, Ford, Buick, Chevrolet. These cars were selling. Dodge. In 1925 I purchased one Buick car, eight thousand rupees. Dr. Patel: Small cars were everywhere 1700 rupees in 1936-37. Prabhupada: And Ford car was very cheap. Dr. Patel: Thirty-two hundred rupees. V8 Ford cars were sold in Bombay market for thirty-two hundred rupees, three thousand two hundred. Now you send a car for repairs, the bill will be six thousand, seven thousand rupees. Prabhupada: What can be done? Things have gone high, I was calculating the other day, twenty times. Hari-sauri: Thirty times. Dr. Patel: More than that. Thirty times, yes. Prabhupada: Thirty times, yes. My father’s income was from 250 to 300, and we were living very comfortably. Jagadisa: A month? Prabhupada: Per month. Dr. Patel: It was more than sufficient, those days. Prabhupada: No, no, that three hundred rupees means… What you calculated? Hari-sauri: Well, at 250 rupees it came to seven and a half thousand rupees now. Prabhupada: That’s right. Even low as 250 it comes to seven thousand rupees. So who has got seven thousand rupee income now? Dr. Patel: In my house we spend monthly more than six thousand rupees. I studied for my graduation in the college at fifty rupees a term fee for six months. I’m paying for those small kids going to the family schools seven hundred rupees per month. Prabhupada: Our family was taking two kilos and a half milk daily. Two annas per kilo. Ghee was selling, first-class ghee, in Calcutta… Just in front of our house there was a grocer shop. We were purchasing in that tin, but if some required, I would go immediately. Dr. Patel: Fourteen rupees I think it was. Fourteen rupees is twenty kilos. Prabhupada: Less than that. Ten seers. Dr. Patel: That is twenty kilos. Trivikrama: Cow ghee? Prabhupada: No, buffalo’s… Cow ghee we were taking with rice. But it was not available in quantity. Dr. Patel: Many was so very cheap then. After I graduated myself when I was university scholar, I was given seventy-five rupee scholarship per month and a free bungalow with servants and all these things. It was all right for me till I passed my M.D., seventy- five rupees only. Prabhupada: This cow’s milk in Bengal, it is compulsory—before beginning your meal, little cow milk, er, ghee mixed with rice and smashed potato. It is very nice. Dr. Patel: And then we do serve…, after that we take out a part of it for the cow back, and a little for… Prabhupada: Alu bharte bharta. (?) In Bengal it is called alu bharte bharta. If you don’t have anything, just have smashed potato, little ghee and rice. That’s it. It is sufficient, very nutritious. And at last, little milk. Very nutritious. Dr. Patel: Now there is shortage of all the important material the world over. The way we are exploiting the earth, perhaps we’ll be short, falling short of everything. Prabhupada: Therefore our Trivikrama Maharaja is reminding me… When I was lecturing in Berkeley University, one Indian student asked me, “Swamiji, what this Hare Krsna movement will benefit? We require technology.” So I replied that “You have come to beg technology; I have come to give them, not to beg from them.” Trivikrama: To teach. “I’ve come to give.” Dr. Patel: I understand. The modern materialistic, I mean, advancement of society with this modern technology will, I mean… Prabhupada: No, even from that point of view, I was taking aeroplane. Aeroplane was flying. So we admit this is contribution of the Western technology. But it is not safe. But what I am giving, it is safe. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato… So our, this contribution of India’s culture and this contribution, far different. That is not safe. At any moment you’ll be finished. But here— svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam. This Manipur state is mentioned in the Bhagavata. And these people say that three thousand years before, there was no civilization. Trivikrama: Now they’re changing. Dr. Patel: In Manipur where Arjuna made… Prabhupada: Babhruvahana. And Babhruvahana was the king’s daughter’s son, so he remained as the adopted son of the king. Putrika-suta. He had no son so he took the daughter’s son. So this is India’s… The ksatriyas, they’re not (indistinct), and some sudras are ruling. Dr. Patel: The sudras are ruling the world over, not only in India. Because Nixon was less than a sudra, they way he carried out himself, the highest authority of the most advanced state materialistically. Prabhupada: Now they are going to take care of it, these brahmanas. Dr. Patel: But he made a very bad show. The place where a man like… Prabhupada: Washington. Dr. Patel: Washington and people like Jefferson. He has polluted that seat. They must change that seat. Change the White House wholesale. The greatest curr on this most, I mean, enlightened people. Americans are very enlightened because their forefathers were enlightened and they came there as pilgrims. Those, what do they call them? Puritans, you see. They are most different from Aussies. The Australians who are criminals of England. Prabhupada: If Nixon is a Jew? Dr. Patel: No, no. He’s a Christian. No Jew can be, serve as the president of that country. Not only Jew but not only Catholic. Trivikrama: Well, some Catholics. Kennedy was… Dr. Patel: Only Kennedy was the first Catholic to be. Otherwise till Kennedy came, there was no Catholic ever elected. [break] Methodist. Even in material world, he was a fool the way he carried out… (laughing) But sir, one thing: about the freedom of America. I have my hat off that that man could be knocked off by ordinary paper reporter. That would not happen in any other country. Prabhupada: Therefore I asked to take the government. Dr. Patel: That would not happen in any other country but America, freedom par excellence. Prabhupada: There is possibility of Krsna conscious devotees will take the government. Dr. Patel: That can be possible because of freedom, essential freedom of that country. Prabhupada: Therefore we are being checked that “They may not grow.” One politician has said that “If they grow like this, in ten years they’ll take the government.” Trivikrama: Someone has said that? Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. He said. Some politician has said that “The Hare Krsna people are growing so rapid, like epidemic.” He has said. “And if they grow like this within ten years they may take our government.” He has remarked it. Dr. Patel: Good for them. The amount of money that has been wasted by America, that much money could have raised the standard of living the whole… Prabhupada: Money is no consideration. Dr. Patel: Apart from that, sir, after all, it is a disease, poverty. If the people are out of poverty, then they will think about… First they’ll think about God in the stomach. Then anywhere else. Prabhupada: No, no. This is not the fact. Trivikrama: Out of poverty, then they’ll think about wine and women. Prabhupada: Yes. Dr. Patel: But that is in America, not… Prabhupada: Everywhere. Everywhere. Dr. Patel: They have nothing to eat. You have seen the people living worse than the pigs. Trivikrama: We have seen in Japan. Now they are… Prabhupada: Everywhere. Here also, all these politicians, they are after woman, meat and money. That’s all. Trivikrama: Intoxication. Prabhupada: Yes. One… Who was speaking, that in…? Some gentleman, he was Feroz(?) Gandhi’s friend. He went to America, and he was eating beef like anything. Dr. Patel: Feroz? He was, Gandhi? Prabhupada: Not… No, another Indian leader. He’s a Marwari brahmana. Dr. Patel: Parsee would never eat beef, sir, huh? I heard they are… Prabhupada: No, no. They are eating everything. Dr. Patel: They don’t eat beef. Prabhupada: I know. They are eating. They eat everything. I have seen one Parsee here in Bombay. He is chanting and getting one chicken cut throat by the man. And he’s cutting. He gave in a paper and he took it away. And he’s chanting Hare Krsna mantra. (Dr. Patel laughs loudly) Not Hare Krsna, but… They have got all their chants. They have got their chanting. And I have seen their kitchen. It is more dirty than the toilet. Dr. Patel: Filthiest thing. Most dirty kitchens are the Muslims, very horrible thing. [break] Prabhupada: …day one Hindi gentleman came. He presented a picture, India’s map, and all the whole India is full of avataras: Vivekananda, Ramakrishna, this, that. This is India. Dr. Patel: They might be vibhutis. You can call them, but… Prabhupada: No, no, same thing. What vibhutis they have got? Vibhuti of cheating, that’s all. (laughter) Dr. Patel: They are vibhuti anyhow. Prabhupada: They have got some vibhuti, how to cheat. This vibhuti they have got. Trivikrama: He was serious? He was serious about the map? Prabhupada: Yes. He came to me to support this movement. What is this nonsense map, all cheaters pictured here? All Bhagavan, so many thousands of Bhagavans. Vibhuti of cheating, that’s all. Dr. Patel: Yad yad vibhutimat sattvam. Prabhupada: That vibhuti you have got also. Dr. Patel: Whatever it may be. Prabhupada: All right. Even an ant has got. Dr. Patel: And that means if you… A bigger ant. There are in South America are some ants, you know, big. Prabhupada: So that is… That… That gift is given by God to everyone. That does not mean one is Bhagavan. Jagadisa: Krsna says, “I am the cheating of cheats.” Prabhupada: Yes. [break] Dr. Patel: The greatest number, sir, is being carried out here in Bombay some fifty miles away by this Muktananda Swami. His statue is being worship as, in place of God by… Prabhupada: Sai Baba is also. Sai Baba is also doing, Satya Sai. Dr. Patel: They say that they are worshiping the guru as God. And why not as their guru? Prabhupada: Rajaneesh. Rajneesh Dr. Patel: Rajneesh calls himself Bhagavan, that man. Prabhupada: He also says, “Bhagavan.” Dr. Patel: He’s doing a sort of mass hypnotism to my mind. Psychologically I try to analyze him. Prabhupada: Without analyzing, we take him as rogue. (laughter) That’s all. Dr. Patel: You… I, being a scientist, try to analyze. This is my nature. Hari-sauri: Analysis is our nature, he said. Dr. Patel: I try to analyze you also, sir. I try to analyze you. Prabhupada: No, our analysis is…, analytical process, is very simple. Dr. Patel: (laughing) I did it. And when I tried… Trivikrama: What is that process, Srila Prabhupada? Prabhupada: The process: if one is not krsna-bhakta, he’s a rogue. Hari-sauri: Duskrtina, mudha, naradhama… Prabhupada: Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. Bas, finished analysis. As soon as we see that he is not a devotee of Krsna, he must be a rogue. That’s all. Duskrtina, sinful. That’s all. Dr. Patel: About this guru, they have taken it in a very wrong way. Adya-guru is Krsna. That way you must go and worship that way. Prabhupada: Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah… [break] …see you are a rogue. Hare Krsna. Trivikrama: So you have analyzed Srila Prabhupada? Dr. Patel: I have. And I found that only bhakti is the real way. And to correct myself I read out all the Vaisnava literature. I know this Sanskrit. And then I… Prabhupada: (aside) That’s nice.(?) But first give me little cow’s milk—cup—and put little flat rice, not too much, and little fruit. That’s all. Dr. Patel: So, sir, you are going by train to Kumbhamela. Prabhupada: I like train. Dr. Patel: I would have accompanied you if you had gone by plane. I would lose lot of time going and coming. While coming back, you will come out to ten days, five days. Prabhupada: No. Train, first-class is very comfortable. Dr. Patel: But you see, after all, it takes upon the health, twenty-four hours. Prabhupada: No, no. Rather, doctor, your doc…, civil ser…, man, he said that, “Avoid plane.” For me he had said. Trivikrama: Yes, because the atmosphere changes. Dr. Patel: But pressurized plane, no. On nonpressurized plane, not. Trivikrama: He is the knower of his body. Dr. Patel: All right. I had gone to Allahabad by train. (laughs) I had a very bad experience myself. Prabhupada: No, first-class is… We reserved whole room, so no outsider there; will be very comfortable. We’ll leave at… Dr. Patel: First-class have got now berths. Prabhupada: Four, we reserve four whenever… So two upper berths, two lower berths—we sleep very comfortably—lock the door. And first-class… Dr. Patel: You’ll be coming back after how many days? Prabhupada: Maybe by March Dr. Patel: More. Fifteen days, no? Prabhupada: No. More than that. Dr. Patel: It will be very, very cold. It will be very, very… You have to live in a tent… After all, tent is not really… Especially in March, January, cold is extreme. It is as cold as New York but more than that. Prabhupada: I have got many invitations from friends. I can live in the home, house. That depends on my… Either in the tent or a mile, two miles away. Dr. Patel: When you go out after leaving some friend’s house, it will be very difficult to come out because of the cold. It will be as big as Bombay practically, this Kumbhamela, at least twenty-five lakhs or thirty lakhs. It will be as big as cold. (?) Prabhupada: No, space is also. Dr. Patel: I’ll tell one of the friends to get me some water on that day. I’ll take bath here. (laughs) I had gone to Allahabad once only. Prabhupada: Only? Dr. Patel: We have not had the chance to go there. Delhi also. I’ve never gone to the Delhi also. Therefore it was calling me. I have seen Delhi in 1939. After that, I have never gone. Prabhupada: My family life was in Allahabad, 1923 to 1936 continually. I used to come to Bombay from Allahabad for business. And I was staying in that hotel, Empire Hindu Hotel. Yes, very nice. At that time it was very nice. Dr. Patel: That is the hotel where Lokamane(?) Tilak died. He was staying there. Prabhupada: Yes. It is modern standard, very nice hotel, still good hotel. Dr. Patel: Maharastrian brahmanas keep very good hotel, still good hotel. They are not as greedy as the Gujaratis. That is a fact. Prabhupada: No, they are following principle. Now the Gujarati are also… And Maharastra, as good. This material civilization, meat- eating, has spread like anything. Here we see, signboard: “Beefshop.” We have seen. Dr. Patel: Was it? Prabhupada: Yes. Dr. Patel: There, there. Not here. They’re on that side. Now they are not going to have any more beef now, from first of January. Cows are prohibited. Practically the whole India there will be no cow slaughter. That is why Vinoda Bhave was putting on a fast unto death. Still, he did not… Jagadisa: I thought he killed bulls.(?) Dr. Patel: Bulls I included in cows. In place they will kill the buffaloes. The buffaloes are tamed. I don’t know how in the world, sir, nowhere these buffaloes are tamed as it is in India. That means what height of these things Indian people must have reached to tame the wild animals. Prabhupada: No, buffaloes are killed. Dr. Patel: No, no. What I mean to say, how buffaloes were tamed and milked and all these things, nowhere in the world other than India you’ll see buffaloes, anywhere. Trivikrama: China. Dr. Patel: In China they have got? They have also? They have got, Arabian… In Africa, oh, you see a buffalo and bison… (?) Prabhupada: Buffalo and bison different. Dr. Patel: But they are of the same degree or more wild. These are tame. This, sir, is a (Hindi). We call it (Hindi), the Sanskrit word, more or less. (pause) Prabhupada: The coconut trees makes the place paradise, palm trees. Dr. Patel: I’ve got the place, sir. When you came to my house my wife immediately planted twenty-two coconuts all round. Now we get coconut, they’d be more than two thousand rupees per year. Prabhupada: We are getting eight thousand. Dr. Patel: Yes, you are very good. Mine is hardly half an acre. Prabhupada: The other day Giriraja told me we have got eight thousand. Hari-sauri: A year. Prabhupada: Yes. Dr. Patel: But these coconuts, there would be more coconuts if they are looked after, all these, putting fertilizer on and watering them. All these houses behind here, they should be very planned out. This is all filthy. Behind it is very filthy. All these tenants will be segregated on one side, this side. And those living, they will be taking possession and… Prabhupada: No, instead of taking one building, we are in possession of the all the buildings. Then that is my policy, that we must remain on the head of every building. Therefore I constructed. They cannot say absolutely it is tenant, no. Mixed. We are therefore occupying the head of every building, fixed building. Dr. Patel: There are some grand courts again (?) behind… Prabhupada: That is one story. Otherwise we are on the head. They cannot monopolize the whole building. Hari-sauri: We have a room in that building, anyway, in that one- story building we’re storing our books in. Prabhupada: That we have taken now, that portion. We have paid for it. Dr. Patel: This place, that is the worth of that, this amount, was originally bought by Mr. Nyer, for this place, for… Prabhupada: Two rupees, three rupees. Dr. Patel: That one which you bought. This, this, behind, where you call. Nine annas. Nine annas a square yard. Prabhupada: Nine annas. (laughs) Dr. Patel: So my place, I bought in 1958 for fifteen rupees. Today it would take me four hundred, five hundred rupees a square yard, only within these two, three years, twenty years. Prabhupada: Mr. Nair told me that “I have purchased not more than twenty rupees per square yard. So I shall charge you seventy rupees. It is my profit.” Dr. Patel: Seventy rupees also you were wise as compared to the modern, present prices. Prabhupada: No, at that time it was selling 150. And now it is more than four hundred. Our land is, only one crore, apart from these buildings. Therefore everyone is envious. Dr. Patel: Most envious men are… That fellow was himself burned by pouring kerosene on. He was a most envious fellow. He even once told me, “Why do you go there?” Prabhupada: Accha? Dr. Patel: I used to treat his family. I was doctor. And I stopped treating him because he has not, he was so envious. He has got half a dozen girls in his family. I mean, where you will get… Prabhupada: In Kali-yuga there is no marriage. Svikara eva codvahe. Agreement. Trivikrama: By agreement. Dr. Patel: That is in Western countries. Prabhupada: No, everywhere. India also. Dr. Patel: Marriages are brought in famine (?) and they are never broken down again. Prabhupada: No, in big, big cities there is a marriage magistrate. You go… The boys and girls go and register there… Dr. Patel: Yes, but here… Prabhupada: No, no. Marriage is, therefore, what is called primitive. Primitive. Modern marriage is primitive. Dr. Patel: I think also that is correct. In your time, sir, you never used to see the girl from the year before the marriage. In our times, we never used to see the girl before the marriage. I never saw my wife. She was in Mahatma Gandhi’s asrama, and I was on this side. I never saw. And we lived very happily. Prabhupada: No, in my marriage, it was already settled. So one day I was going in cycle. So my father-in-law forcibly took me. (chuckles) Dr. Patel: So those marriage, sir, sometimes they never forget.(?) Prabhupada: No. My wife was eleven years old. Dr. Patel: My wife was sixteen years when I married her. I was nineteen. Trivikrama: Eleven years! Prabhupada: Yes. Dr. Patel: That was nothing! They would marry at the age of five. Prabhupada: My mother-in-law was married at seven years. And my father-in-law was eleven years. Dr. Patel: A friend of mine was telling together in the high school, and he married when he was a boy of eleven years a girl of nine. And he was sleeping when he was… Prabhupada: Even Dr. Rajendraprasad, he was married at eight years. Dr. Patel: Eight years. Rajendraprasad, first president of India. Prabhupada: And the marriage party was waiting, and he was sleeping, and when the opportune moment came, “Get up! Get up! Now you have to sit down in the…” Dr. Patel: I think Nehru married at the age of eighteen years. Prabhupada: He was up-to-date, English-returned. He was Gandhi’s student. Dr. Patel: These boys make love and marry. And we marry and make love. (laughs) This is the background of Indian womanhood, this religion. That keeps up the sacredness of the Hindu marriage. Prabhupada: No, everywhere there is religion, in Europe, America. Church. Church. Marriage was taken in church. Dr. Patel: The Catholic marriages are indissolvable. They can’t remarry. Now they have done it. Prabhupada: Now you have also done in India, so many. Dr. Patel: We have got a government law, that sue the fellow for dissolution. Hindus. Mr. Nehru has done—great service to his community. (japa) [break] Prabhupada: …aerodrome is near. Dr. Patel: I reach aerodrome from my place in three minutes. And you (indistinct). (discussion of airplanes and helicopters) Prabhupada: Chambur, I stayed there for a week. So almost on head, aeroplanes. Dr. Patel: They come this way and they, on the head on Santa Cruz. Few of them are like that… [break] …New York. Prabhupada: Kennedy airport? There are two, three airports. [break] …forget spiritual body. Next time he is going to be dog. That he does not know. Dr. Patel: (laughs) Samah sarvesu bhutesu, sir. Even dog has in his day. There is the dominance of God. Prabhupada: No, no. We don’t hate dog. We say that this life is meant for getting release from this repetition of birth and death. Otherwise punah punas carvita… Either you become a dog or a hog or a man or a god. The business is ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithuna… [break] (bell rings) Prabhupada: That one thing is that this sort of publicity and this, this dress, is very nice. Girls who have no husband, they should dress like this, not attractive dress. A dress sometimes attracts the opposite sex. And women are… By nature they dress very nicely. (laughs) That is everywhere—to attract. The nature is that they are dependent, woman by nature. Do you admit or not? Palika: Yes. Prabhupada: And the Western countries, they have been taught to become independent. That is artificial. That is all artificial. So, woman by nature… Manu-samhita says, na striyam svatantram arhati: “Women should not be given independence.” They must be protected by the father, by husband, and by elderly sons. They are not independent. No independence. Even Kunti, the mother of such big, big sons, she was not independent. The sons were sent to the exile; mother also went. Sita… The father-in-law never said that “You also go with your husband.” No. He requested Ramacandra that “Your stepmother wants that You should be exiled. So please accept it. Accept this.” And Ramacandra said that “You are not exiled.” But Sita said, “I may not be exiled, but I am dependent on You. If You go to the forest I must…” You see? Just see, dependent. Jagadisa: Most of the women, or at least many of the women in our society, have neither father, husband or sons. Prabhupada: It is very precarious condition. So we want to give them, all of them, “Come and live.” But when you come here, if you get husband we have no objection. But don’t canvass. That is not good. And that is making our sannyasis fall down. Of course, it is difficult, that young men, young women living, intermingling. But it is… Krsna consciousness movement is to reform everything. Even there there is such desire it should be checked. And that can be checked if one is strictly Krsna conscious. Otherwise not possible. So these things should be… Because the Kali-yuga, the more it advances, people will be suffering in so many ways. And the only solace is Krsna consciousness, only solution. If one becomes Krsna conscious, then he (she) doesn’t require husband. He (she) does not require. He… She knows that “Krsna is my protector. Why shall I artificially seek after father or…?” And what protection, for a few days either the father or the son or the husband may give? Real protection is Krsna. This is temporary, but because we have got this material body we require some. In this way… And this kind of hypocrisy—they have taken sannyasa and mixing with woman. This is not to be allowed. If you want woman you get yourself married, live respectfully. We have no objection. But this hypocrisy should be stopped. There have been so many fallen down. First of all there will be no sannyasi anymore. I have got very bad experience. And at least, we are not going to create new sannyasis. And those who have fallen down, let them marry, live like respectable gentlemen. I have no objection. After all, young man, fallen down—that’s all right. It is by nature’s way. But marry that girl. That I am insisting from the very beginning, that no friendly liaison. If you want, get one nice… They are, all of them qualified. Get one wife and live like a gentleman. Similarly woman. Live with one husband fastidiously, with children. What is the wrong there? We have so many grhastha devotees. You have got children. Pradyumna has got child. Gopala has… Live with husband, wife. There is no restriction for husband and wife. But what is this nonsense that you take sannyasa and make relation with…? This should be completely stopped. And in our, this campus, actually those who are eager to advance in Krsna consciousness, they should live, nobody else. We give free food, free apartment, cloth and everything. “Come here. Live. As far as possible we shall provide.” But this is specially meant for bhagavad-bhajana. Attend arati, early rise in the morning, attend the functions, take prasadam… In this way everything will be reorganized, not loose things. Then what is the use of…? We have got such a… And so far the tenants are concerned, if it is possible, give them money; let them go. One, two, some have gone, and others… This whole campus should be for devotees. We don’t want tenant. And it should be developed for that purpose, for developing Krsna consciousness. Either here or outside India or anywhere, this principle should be followed. And this hodgepodge association, society, is not the… Let it be very pure. Ekas candras tamo hanti na ca tara. That one moon is sufficient. There is no need of millions of stars. Hm? What do you think? One moon gives light. So, in this way, if we can make one person really Krsna conscious, then our mission is successful. What is the use of millions of stars twinkling? What is called? Twinkling? You should discuss all these things, but you… These two brothers should be, P. Bannerji and M. Bannerji… The address is there. You can write as secretary, “Dear Sir, I am instructed by His Divine Grace Prabhupada to thank you for your postcard dated such and such. And we condole for your bereavement in the absence of your father late, Principal N. Bannerji. You know that your father was intimately related with Srila Prabhupada, and he assisted him with some money, loan. Your father attempted to repay it, but he could not. Now, after his death, you are worthy sons…” Jagadisa: I’m getting behind, Srila Prabhupada. “Now, after his death…” Prabhupada: “You are good sons behind him. You have observed the death ceremony very pompously.” Jagadisa: “Death ceremony…” Prabhupada: “Of your father.” Jagadisa: “Very pompously”? Prabhupada: “Pompously. And, why not repay the debts of your father so that he may live very peacefully in his next life? A line in reply will much oblige us. Yours sincerely.” You sign, “Secretary to His Divine…,” as you… This man (laughs) over there was a paka thief, and his sons also. Jagadisa: He was a paka thief? Prabhupada: He cheated me. Ten years before I gave him about one thousand rupees. He never paid me. And these sons are also number, paka, and they are observing the death ceremony. What you have written? Jagadisa: “Dear Sirs: I am instructed by His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada to thank you for your postcard dated such and such, and we condole for your bereavement in the absence of your father…” Prabhupada: Eh? “I am? I am?” What is it? Jagadisa: “And we condole for your bereavement in the absence of your father, the late such and such.” Prabhupada: Principal N. Bannerji. Jagadisa: “You know that your father was intimately related with Srila Prabhupada, and he assisted him with…” Prabhupada: “And Prabhupada assisted him.” Jagadisa: Okay. “And Srila Prabhupada assisted him with some money loan. Your father attempted to repay it, but he could not. Now, after his death, you are good sons behind him. You have observed the death ceremony very pompously. Why not repay the debts of your father so that he may live very peacefully in his next life? A line in reply will much oblige us. Yours sincerely, Secretary…” Prabhupada: Is that all right? Let us see how worthy sons they are. Everyone knows. They know. That Gauracandra Gosai, Radha- Damodara, he knows. And I have got letters and everything… I… If I go to the court… And who is going to the court? I could have gone to the court, long, long ago. I never liked to go to the court. In my business life also, if somebody did not pay, I never go to the court. Bother… “To push good money after bad money.” The money which is lost, and… And what about that money order? Jagadisa: I have instructed Giriraja to do it this morning. Prabhupada: Oh, again “instructed.” No instruction. I want to see the receipt immediately. Jagadisa: I told him. Prabhupada: You told him but he does not do. Jagadisa: It’s still early. As soon as… Prabhupada: Early… When it will be late, then it will be not done. Immediately do it. When I am giving him, it must reach timely to save the situation. So go and do this first. [break] This is our latest publication. [break] Indian (1): They should see the Almighty. They should repeat it. They should recite the name. Physically, they should be strong and stout and be the brothers of everyone. There should be a brotherhood. Gopala Prabhu has got some grasping capacity. He can understand something. We know the principles in the life according to Bhagavad-gita, Mahabharata, Ramayana, Bhagavata. Prabhupada: Samsiddhim paramam gatah. Indian (1): Sve sve karmany abhiratah samsiddhim labhate narah. Sve sve karmany abhiratah. That means everyone must be firm. Prabhupada: Tam abhyarcya. Not only simply drdhatva, but karmana tam abhyarcya. Otherwise it is zero. Karmana manavah tam abhyarcya. If you give up that tam abhyarcya, then it is useless. So where is that abhyarcya? Indian (1): It is devotion. To forget ourselves. Prabhupada: No, forget ourself not… If you forget yourself, then how you’ll work? You must know what is your position. Indian (1): No, no, forget ourself, that means we have to forget the passions and selfishness. Prabhupada: Passion, that is base principle. I mean to say actually you have to remember yourself, what is your position, not forget yourself. Your position, as it is explained in the Bhagavad-gita, mamaivamso—“I am the part and parcel of God.” You cannot forget this. If you forget this, then everything is… Indian (1): No, no. That is… Not to forget that, only to forget the bad things… Prabhupada: That you cannot forget bad things unless you are engaged in good things. Indian (1): Good things. Correct, correct. Correct. Prabhupada: Param drstva nivartate. If you do not get good engagement, you cannot give up bad engagement. So similarly, if you do not forget your constitutional position, then the bad things cannot be forgotten. So our position is that we are part and parcel of God. Indian (1): Of the Almighty. Prabhupada;: Yes. Just like this finger is the part and parcel of my body. So this finger, I say, “Finger come here. Itch here,” so it is doing that. And if it is… If it cannot do, then it is diseased. If there is some painless, painfulness or some sore, then immediately I cannot do it. So that means I am part and parcel of God. If I cannot serve God, then I am diseased. That is material condition. So material condition… Suppose this finger is diseased. So you poke up, applying some ointment and going to the doctor. This is one business. And when it is cured, when it is actually engaged in service, that is healthy state. So this social work without serving God is just like applying ointment to the diseased part of the… It has no value, practical value. If it… It has got value, provided it is cured, to serve the whole body. So if the finger is not so cured to serve the whole body, then it remains diseased. You go on applying ointment; it has no use. Similarly, to serve humanity means if you can raise him to the consciousness, Krsna consciousness, then, then, then it is right. And if you keep him in ignorance—you go on all kinds of human service—it is all useless. Srama eva hi kevalam. dharmah svanusthitah pumsam visvaksena-kathasu yah notpadayed yadi ratim srama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8] If by serving humanity, you cannot raise him to the standard of understanding he’s part and parcel of God and his main business to serve Krsna, then it is useless. Srama eva hi kevalam. So our service to the humanity should be… He is in forgetfulness. He does not know what is his position. If you can raise him to the position that he is part and parcel of God… Unless he comes to the position of serving God, his material condition will continue. Mam aprapya nivartante mrtyu-samsara-vartmani. So, dharmasyasya janma, parantapa. Asraddadhanah… Like that. Then that service is useless. If he continues, punar api janma, punar, then his service to the humanity useless. Therefore our service to the humanity should be aimed how to awaken his original consciousness, Krsna consciousness. That is real service. (pause—someone says something—Hindi) It is… There is no benefit. Simply labor of love. That’s all. And just like to make one Hindu from Christian. So what benefit you’ll get? He is under wrong impression that “I am Christian,” and he’s brought into another wrong impression—“I am Hindu.” But he’s neither Hindu nor Christian. He’s servant of God. So to turn the Christian, to bring him to become a Hindu, it is useless labor. What benefit? A dog is also thinking, “I am dog.” And if somebody is thinking, “I am Hindu,” so where is the difference? Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke [SB 10.84.13] If one thinks, “This body, I am”—either Hindu or Muslim or dog or cat, if one is thinking in that way, that “I am this body,”—sa eva go-kharah: [SB 10.84.13] he’s animal. So from one animal to another animal—from cat to dog or from dog to cat—where is the benefit? The position is the same. As a cat he will that “Meow,” and as a dog, he’ll “Gowl.” That’s all, that much difference. But he remains animal. Sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. What is benefit of such humanitarian work? And Bhagavad-gita says mam upetya kaunteya punar janma na vidyate. No more either cat or dog. Mam eva. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg. 4.9]. That is wanted. Punar janma means if I am cat, I become a dog, or if I am a dog, I become cat. That is punar janma. So that will continue his birth and death. Mrtyu-samsara-vartmani. What is that benefit? Suppose I am now human being and next life I become either dog or a demigod. So the janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi is there, either you become a demigod or a dog. But your position is na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. You have to come to that position. Indian (1): That is the philosophical and spiritual position. Prabhupada: That is real position. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. If you are under the law of birth and death, then it is useless, the same thing, either you become cat or dog or god or anything. Abrahma-bhuvanal lokah punar avartino ’rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. So even if you take your birth in the highest planetary system, Brahmaloka, still, the birth, death, old age is there. Indian (1): Ksine punye martya-lokam… Prabhupada: Martya-lokam visanti. So disease continues. Indian (1): It is a circle. Prabhupada: Yes. Indian (1): And that man himself accepts all these things… Prabhupada: That is going on… Indian (1): …through his karma. Prabhupada: …that they are karmis, they are working to go to the heavenly planet. And what he’ll do? What he will benefit? Indian (1): Arto jijnasur artharthi jnani ca bharatarsabha. In lakhs and lakhs, people there are one…, it is very difficult to find a jnani. Prabhupada: No, jnani… One can become jnani in a moment, provided he wants. Just like Krsna says, bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. So jnanavan mam prapadyate. So if one surrenders to Krsna, he’s jnanavan. Otherwise he’s a rascal. So if you don’t teach how to surrender to Krsna, then he remains a rascal. That’s all. Indian (1): It is our duty to teach, to educate the people. Prabhupada: Yes. So this is education, that “Surrender to Krsna.” Otherwise he’s not education. Indian (1): To guide them how to surrender the Almighty. That is our duty. Prabhupada: But he does not know what is Almighty. And Almighty is canvassing, and people are refusing. Almighty says, mattah parataram nanyat [Bg. 7.7]. So here is Almighty, but who is teaching that “Here is Almighty. Surrender to Him”? Indian (1): That is asuri sampatti. Prabhupada: This is going on. Indian (1): Due to asuri sampatti, people refuse. Prabhupada: Refusal or not, (?) people do not teach also, that “Here is Krsna, the Almighty, the Supreme. You surrender here.” And the Almighty is canvassing, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam. But they’ll not do that. And neither their so-called leaders will teach them to do that. So this is going on. But Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that “You become a guru.” Amara ajnaya guru hana tara’ ei desa [Cc. Madhya 7.128] “You become a guru and deliver them.” So “I am a fool. I have no education. How can I become a guru?” So answer is “No, no. Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128].” If you simply advise people what Krsna has said, then you become guru. But if you manufacture your ideas, then you are not a guru. Indian (1): He has to teach what is the message of the Lord. Prabhupada: This is the message, “Surrender unto Me.” The message… God is canvassing, that “Surrender unto Me.” Sarva-dharman parityajya: [Bg. 18.66] “Give up all this nonsense engagement. Surrender unto Me.” But they are not doing that. Mudha. Duskrtino mudhah na mam prapadyante. They’re forgetting the real business, and they are engaged in some superfluous nonsense business. Indian (1): Succumb to some passions and all this. Prabhupada: This is going on. Indian (1): That is by ignorance. Prabhupada: Now we are preaching the Krsna’s words only, and we have become successful all over the world. Indian (1): Yes, all over the world. Prabhupada: And they go, the so-called yogis, swamis go. They, it enters into this ear, goes out this ear. That’s all. No effect. “Bag bhak.”(?) (Hindi) …effective. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. (Hindi) “Krsna is the Supreme Lord.” Indian (1): It’s a wonderful thing. Prabhupada: “And you just surrender unto Him.” And anyone who is doing, he’s getting the perfect wisdom. Indian (1): Hundreds and thousands people are listening to the message of the Lord. Prabhupada: We are selling these books, daily five to six lakhs, daily. What is the message? “Surrender to Krsna.” That’s all. In one week, how many books you have sold? Jagadisa: In one week we sold 700,000 books. Seven lakhs. Prabhupada: Seven lakhs’ books in one week. Indian (1): In one week. Wonderful thing. Prabhupada: Religious books selling, seven lakhs of books in a week, there is no history. Indian (1): There is no another example. Prabhupada: And where we are selling? Where Christians are there. They are not Hindus, that they’ll read Bhagavad-gita and Bhagavata and Cai… They’re all Christian, Jews, Muslims. In Muslim country we are also selling. Yes. Indian (1): Iran, Pakistan. Prabhupada: Iran, Pakistan, Egypt. Trivikrama: Even Chinese. Prabhupada: Chinese, yes. And Chinese… Now we have begun in Russia also. Indian (1): Let me see Russian edition. [break] Bhagavan Krsna… [break] Prabhupada: (Hindi) Indian (1): No, we are prepared to… Prabhupada: Nobody is prepared. Indian (1): Myself is prepared, our Kali… (?) Prabhupada: (Hindi) Trivikrama: All night he is translating. At night he is translating all night. Prabhupada: (Hindi) …machine. At night we translate. In daytime they type, and they send to the press, and the books are printed. Then they sell. So in this way I am bringing ten lakhs of rupees per month and investing in constructing these temples. Trivikrama: Many temples. All over India. Indian (1): All over India. In Mathura, Vrndavana, there is something going on. Prabhupada: And that is finished. Our temple is the biggest and the nicest. Indian (1): Idea is the nice. Devotion is the biggest. So everything naturally… Prabhupada: (Hindi) Indian (1): (Hindi) I will advise my people… Prabhupada: Why advise? Why not come practically? Indian (1): Why not practically they should come? Prabhupada: Advise gratis, that will not do. (Hindi) …temple… We have spent fifty lakhs of rupees. There is very big guesthouse behind the temple. Indian (1): To continue all the mission and… That is… Prabhupada: All over the world. Indian (1): All over the world. Prabhupada: We have got 110 Radha-Krsna temples all over the world. Where is that…? Vraja? Jagadisa: Brijabasi Spirit. Prabhupada: (Hindi) Our New Vrindaban… [break] …that we must give something substantial. [break] This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s mission. Bharata-bhumite manusya-janma haila yara janma sarthaka kari’ kara para-upakara [Cc. Adi 9.41] (Hindi—break) Indian (1): Now it has been introduced, Hindi also. Prabhupada: Oh, yes. You saw Hindi… (breaks)… Bhagavad-gita, Bhagavata. (Hindi) languages. Bengali. (Hindi—breaks) …we received. We have recently received one telegram. Indian (1): Those are big volumes. It takes time to read it, to go through it. And just a small booklet, a man can keep it in his pocket. Prabhupada: We have got three classes. Medium class and the… Indian (1): Volume. Prabhupada: Volume, no. Hardbound big books, and small books. Besides that, magazines. So in one week what we have sold, they have sent one telegram from Los Angeles. Jagadisa: December 17 through 24th. That’s Christmas week. They sold 117,664 big books. Prabhupada: 117,000. Jagadisa: One lakh, seventeen thousand in one week. Then medium books like Isopanisad, they sold 90,737. And smaller books, like this, 63,332. And Back to Godheads, like this magazine, four lakhs, 37,420. Trivikrama: One week. Indian (1): In one week. Very wonderful thing. There is no other comparison for such a sale. Prabhupada: We are the number one publisher of religious, philosophical… Indian (1): Printing and writing attractive, everything is such a nice… That man is attracted, and he goes through the books and writes… [break] Devotee: So now in America we are slowly starting to understand by Srila Prabhupada’s mercy what is the real purpose of Bhagavad-gita, real purpose of yoga. Unfortunately we are finding in India people have misunderstood Gita. And… Indian (1): Misunderstood Gita. Now even they are not study. You see, there is no study at all. It is an unfortunate thing here. In our educational system, the slave system coming from British regime, still it is not changed. Unfortunately, whatever change we see, that change goes antireligion. So the present generation is suffering. Prabhupada: Change means we have lost our culture. Indian (1): They have lost culture, yes. Prabhupada: This is change. Devotee: So Srila Prabhupada is offering the real Indian culture… Indian (1): Yes, that is correct. We have to fulfill all these things. We have to teach them, we have to guide them, advise them, make them study, for that purpose conducting some classes in Sanskrit in the Hindu community… [break] Prabhupada: He has allowed us to go to the United… [break] …assembly to enlighten them. So we, are going there. Recent letter? Where is…? (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
January 7, 1977, Bombay