Room Conversation
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
January 8, 1977, Bombay

Guest (1) (Indian man): As you have said, it comes and goes attached to the body.

Prabhupada: Today or tomorrow. Best thing is so long we have got this opportunity of human form of life, let us cultivate Krsna consciousness. That is…

Guest (1): I came other day also and you were advised by the doctors not to see you.

Prabhupada: No—doctor says like that. I see everyone.

Guest (1): So Gopala Krsna told me… That was the first day with the doctor. You accepted that doctor’s decision. So it was first day when I came. So Gopala Krsna told me this is the problem as it is, and I’m not disappointed at all. I am one with Prabhupada so there is no difficulty. So I took a chance today.

Prabhupada: So I did not like that idea.

Guest (1): No, but sometimes, Prabhupada, just to keep… You may not require your body for yourself, but we require your body also for ourselves. So we, all the devotees, always pray to our Lord to give you a long physical body and healthy so that the cause which you have taken up in your hand should be completely fulfilled. This is the way I feel.

Prabhupada: Yes, I also desire at least let me finish…

Guest (1): I have gone to the Fourth Canto, Fifth Canto.

Prabhupada: We have finished now Eighth Canto, and Ninth Canto is also at the press. Tenth Canto is already printed, this Krsna as the summary of Tenth. Now I have to publish in detail.

Guest (1): We have been praying, Prabhupada, to Lord Krsna that we want him for a long time. Till this movement is fully bloomed and blossomed. So for our sake your body has to last.

Prabhupada: After all, it is Krsna’s body.

Guest (1): Yes. But what I said we pray for not for your sake but for our sake.

Prabhupada: The body is dedicated to Krsna.

Guest (1): Yes. And through you we get inspirations. If we go to wrong path we remember you.

Prabhupada: The similar question was Sanatana Gosvami. Sanatana Gosvami, after leaving his…, resigning his post, he was living as a mendicant, and there was no bodily comfort. Naturally there was eczema, and it is wet eczema. Caitanya Mahaprabhu, as soon as will meet him, immediately embrace him. So he would say, “Don’t touch me! This is not for Your…, touch me. This is the disease…” So Caitanya Mahaprabhu… “I’m touching just to purify Myself.” Then he consulted some friends, that “Caitanya Mahaprabhu will not hear me and He’ll touch forcibly. Better I give up this body.” He desired to commit suicide. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that “Do you think it is your body? You already dedicated to Me for My service. How you are thinking in that way? It is not your body.” Then his body became release from all this eczema. He was thinking like that, that “Caitanya Mahaprabhu forcibly embraces me and my body is so unclean. Better I shall give up.” So He said, “It is no longer your body. You have dedicated the body to Me. You have no right to think like that.”

Guest (1): We are, Srila Prabhupada, small children. You take us with your fingers to the path.

Prabhupada: The path is open.

Guest (1): Yes. But sometimes we falter in the path.

Prabhupada: Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam… [Bg. 18.66], aham tvam sarvapapebhyo moksayisyami. It is open for you. It is open secret.

Guest (1): We make mistakes.

Prabhupada: That is another thing. But path… Mahat sevam dvaram ahur vimuktes. Everything is there. That is the difficulty. Although everything is there…

Guest (1): But I’m sure that with your protection, Prabhupada, I’ll reach the goal which I have contemplated.

Prabhupada: Krsna is giving protection. Aham tvam sarvapapebhyo moksayisyami. But still we are not agreeable. Krsna says that “I shall give you protection from all reaction of sinful life.” But we are not taking that protection. You simply surrender. It is only process.

Guest (1): I am taking your shelter, Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: No, I am not talking of me. I mean to say generally everything is declared. We have to take advantage of this. Then it is everything.

Guest (1): I mean to say, Srila Prabhupada, Lord Krsna also has said that “My pure devotees are more powerful than Me.”

Prabhupada: You have all my blessings. You have done so much for Krsna.

Guest (1): So, Prabhupada, I can come here till you are here. I thought that I should not, because medically you are not advised to. You talk less, but at least we will have your darsana.

Prabhupada: No, no. Five to seven you can come.

Guest (1): That is sufficient for us without much… We will take your leave so that you can have rest.

Prabhupada: Thank you very much.

Guest (1): Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Prasadam? [break] Jaya. How are your sons?

Guest (2) (Indian man): One was sick for six months.

Prabhupada: Why?

Guest (2): He was getting a temperature. He was weak.

Prabhupada: What is the age?

Guest (2): He is twelve years.

Prabhupada: Only? That’s all. What does he say?

Guest (2): What do you say? He has… He is now in my car. I brought him from Bombay.

Prabhupada: So you are living there or what?

Guest (2): They were staying here. They could not get subsequent accommodations. We have shifted to some hotel here, near Juhu.

Prabhupada: Hotel? There is no sufficient place here?

Devotee: He was here, but there were many many life members.

Guest (2): Many life members were here, and so there was not accommodation. So they were told or they voluntarily shifted to the hotel. Because many life members came from abroad here on Christmas, and all that. So therefore the accommodation was not there, so some shifted in Juhu. Some hotel. They come here every day.

Prabhupada: No… Your woman you can live together.

Guest (2): They’re living together. Both ladies are living together. She wants to buy some land at Vrndavana.

Prabhupada: When you have come?

Bhavabhuti: Just today, Srila Prabhupada. Just today from Madras. I closed the bank account there. Also I was in Madras, there’s one movie playing there by the government. The name of the movie is called, “From the Indus Valley to Indira Gandhi.” It’s a government movie put out, and in the movie there’s a picture of the Hare Krsna devotees chanting and also a display of your books.

Prabhupada: Accha?

Bhavabhuti: And it’s giving… This is a movie put out by the government of India, and it included us in it, and it’s very favorable for us. It actually includes a picture of devotees chanting, and it shows the books, saying how this sanatana-dharma is being spread to other countries. I think it is very favorable that the government is now accepting us.

Guest (2): Things are going very good for our movement here. Other day I was with one Air India officer, and I told him, “Why don’t you attract more tourists and show pictures of Hare Krsna and what our activities in India?” To attract more tourists by giving our activities in India. They said we will discuss. They will be discussing with me in the… And of course I will take Giriraja and Gopala Krsna. And one school which is a very famous school in Bombay, center of the city where all the affluent people are staying—that school is very big school, good school—they have agreed that once in a week we can give you forty-five minutes to your…

Prabhupada: Sankirtana.

Guest (2): Sankirtana. So this I will be discussing with Gopala Krsna. And there are about 1500 students in that school from…

Prabhupada: Kirtana can be performed. So the movie, how long it is?

Bhavabhuti: It’s a one and a half hour movie, and we’re in about eight minutes of it.

Prabhupada: That’s nice. Eight minutes. Showing our books? That I want. Let them read our books. Then they’ll understand what we are.

Bhavabhuti: Srila Prabhupada, I just visited also our boat program on the Ganga. Sravanananda has the boat. They distributed 15,000 Back to Godheads in one month in Bengali. Fifteen thousand. So I have challenged Sravanananda. I told him we’re going to distribute more Hindi books on this side of the country.

Prabhupada: No, there the Hindi is not…

Bhavabhuti: But here in this side we’re going to start to distribute this Hindi Back to Godhead very profusely, just like in America.

Prabhupada: And what about Gitar-gan?

Bhavabhuti: Yes. Also that’s included. Fifteen thousand BTG’s and Gitar-gans included. The boys are so enthusiastic now…

Prabhupada: In the boat?

Bhavabhuti: Yes. On the boat. But even when we came into Calcutta—it was a two-hour train ride—the boys were not simply sitting. They were going from car to car selling books. One boy he sold fifty BTG’s just coming from outside of Calcutta to Calcutta. Just two-hour train ride. He was going from car to car, “Hare Krsna,” and he would give them Bengali Back to Godhead. And they are taking very nicely now. All along the Ganga…

Prabhupada: They know how to… (laughs) It is for them that the movement is being pushed on.

Guest (2): Sincerity in the… Two things are there.

Prabhupada: Everything they are doing. That is… Because these American boys and girls they are cooperating, this movement will advance. Otherwise I don’t get any cooperation.

Guest (2): I wish to retire soon from this my professional business as early as I can, and settle here.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna.

Guest (2): With your graces it can materialize.

Prabhupada: Give prasadam.

Guest (2): I got prasadam. Hare Krsna.

Prabhupada: Thank you very much for your coming. Jaya. (Hindi?)

Guest (1): (Hindi?) You are our father.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. [break] India is still for monarchy. Not for democracy. They would like. If they get ideal king they’ll accept it. So if you can, and if she’s serious, let her become ideal… People will worship him like God. But she must be sincere. It is a fact. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana. She must be a pure devotee, then everything will… Let her son become pure devotee, become a devotee… She has respect for our movement. That’s a fact. And Home Member also. Otherwise so much propaganda against us, they would have taken some steps. They can take any steps they like. They are in power.

Giriraja: That’s true.

Prabhupada: If I am in power, give the dog a bad name and hang it. Who is going to check me? The same story, the lion and the lamb? No? A lion was drinking water this side and one lamb was drinking water that side. So the lion saw it is very nice food. So he wanted to kill with some plea, “Oh, you are making my water muddy!” “Sir, I am here so far. How I can make your water muddy?” (laughs) In this way he picked up some quarrel and jumped over. So he’s lion and he’s a lamb. So it is no difficult for the lion to kill a lamb under some plea. “Might is right.” There has been so much propaganda and CIA, this Communist propaganda, this Blitz propaganda. In Bengal there was heavy propaganda against our…

Giriraja: Bhavananda.

Prabhupada: Bhavananda. Nothing was done.

Giriraja: Yes. It’s true.

Prabhupada: And Lalita says that “I know Swamiji is very exalted. I am simply afraid… He has so many American disciples. If some of them do something wrong, that will be very bad thing for him.” Lalita was telling me. What can I do? Come anyone. Who is bad, who is good I do not know. But I know even bad man comes, he becomes a good man. That I know. So who will come? How can I discriminate who is bad or who is good?

Giriraja: Lord Caitanya also welcomed everyone.

Prabhupada: Hm. Caitanya’s movement is papi tapi yata chilo hari-name uddharilo. All sinful men, all suffering humanity, simply by chanting Hare Krsna, they were. Papi tapi yata chilo hari-name uddharilo. How it is possible? Tara saksi jagai madhai. You see the Jagai-Madhai, how they became Vaisnava. This is Narottama dasa Thakura’s song. So you have to ask anything?

Pradyumna: Just one thing. What does… It said in a text in just one wife—about Jarasandha. Jarasandha. Actually the story in Mahabharata is that one half came from one wife and another half came from another.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pradyumna: And it said, amyasya mati bayayam sakale dve brhad-rathat ye matra jaraya capi sundite. And they’re joined by sundite, by Jara. Jivo jivete kridam kriya jarasandho ’bhavat suta. So jiva jiva? Become…

Prabhupada: Become alive. Jiva. Become alive.

Pradyumna: You had here, “O living entity, just be alive”?

Prabhupada: Jiva, addressing jivete. “Be alive.”

Pradyumna: And kridantya. “Playing like that”?

Prabhupada: Playing, joining. Get, be alive, be alive. Like that.

Hari-sauri: Is that Jarasandha?

Pradyumna: Then translation, “In the womb of two other wives, two parts were begotten from Brhadratha. The mothers, seeing such parts, rejected them. Later on, one she-demon by the name Jara joined the parts.” Then sounded like “engaged”?

Prabhupada: Playfully.

Pradyumna: Playfully, “joined the parts playfully”?

Prabhupada: Joining playfully.

Pradyumna: Then she said, jiva jiva?

Prabhupada: “Get into life! Get into life!”

Pradyumna: “And having been joined by Jara in this way…” “In this way, having been joined by Jara, the son Jarasandha was born. And by joining the parts playfully, saying, ‘Get into life.’ ”

Prabhupada: She found two parts. Generally just like play in our childhood some doll is broken. So we used to put the head again.

Pradyumna: Ah.

Prabhupada: So similarly, the head is there: “Join, join! You live! You live!” Like that. You had no opportunity to play like that? Every…

Giriraja: Every child.

Prabhupada: If some dish is broken we used to try to join it. That is child’s play.

Pradyumna: And the thing about Sukadeva Gosvami, that he was actually a different… That chaya-suka. He was different from that other… Brahmacari Sukadeva Gosvami, speaker of Bhagavata, was different from the householder.

Prabhupada: What is the word?

Pradyumna: It said in the purport, chaya-suka. So you said that is like imitation Suka, duplicate Sukadeva.

Prabhupada: Oh, chaya-suka. Yes. Duplicate. Yes. So it is up to date?

Pradyumna: One little…

Prabhupada: I am not working nowadays. Still it is not up to date?

Pradyumna: I just have to go over a few things then I’m sending out.

Prabhupada: I’m doing very little. Anyway…

Pradyumna: No, it’s just this last chapter.

Prabhupada: I am in the Twenty-second Chapter.

Pradyumna: Yes. You’re in Twenty-second Chapter. Twenty-first I’m going to send out.

Prabhupada: And two chapters more will finish Ninth Canto.

Hari-sauri: You did quite a bit last night.

Prabhupada: Yes. If people actually taking like that, then there will be a revolution in Western country.

Hari-sauri: I don’t see how they can stop it. They can’t stop it.

Prabhupada: Huge quantity selling. Either Krsna’s desire… It is Krsna’s desire. Otherwise a religious book which is not their religion, Bhagavatam, Indian. So somehow or other it is being distributed, and they say it is spreading like…

Giriraja: Epidemic.

Prabhupada: Epidemic. So it is a kind of revolution.

Hari-sauri: And it’s not just in one place. It’s every country our men have been to.

Prabhupada: Every country. Whole Europe and America. What business they have got to purchase our books in Christmas? They have no business. Why they are purchasing? Huge quantity. I never dreamed even (laughs) that my books would be sold in large quantity.

Hari-sauri: They sold over one million…

Prabhupada: Bon Maharaja published a portion of the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu. Eleven hundred books. Still lying for the last ten years.

Hari-sauri: Bon Maharaja.

Prabhupada: And he’s the rectum of… (laughs) He can pass stool very nice. (laughter). There was no second printing. And so many scholars , MA, PhD, and so on, so on, so on. Our Dr. Kapoor wrote some books. It was given to some Benarsi. They first of all took it, then they refused, “No. We cannot publish.”

Hari-sauri: They won’t publish his books.

Prabhupada: Who will take it? A philosophical textbook. There’s nobody interested. Actually there is no customer for philosophy nowadays.

Hari-sauri: They can’t… None of these men, they just don’t seem to have any realized knowledge. They write things, but it’s so dry that no one wants to read it. It’s so distasteful. But when you read one of your books it’s so full of life. It’s just to the point. It exactly describes how everybody’s living, how they’re thinking, what the troubles and tribulations they’re going through, how…

Prabhupada: Somehow or other it is interesting.

Hari-sauri: Yes. It’s so full of…

Prabhupada: (laughs) Otherwise why people take it? When I was… I thought that I am giving my imagination, who will take it? It is my imagination. Of course with reference to the modern politics, sociology, everything. Whenever possible I touch.

Hari-sauri: But your preaching is so practical. These other men when they speak, it just comes out… It’s just not practical or they don’t know how to translate it into action.

Prabhupada: Yes. I try to write. I explained in that verse, kamam vavarsa parjanyah [SB 1.10.4]. I’ve touched all the points in the modern…

Giriraja: It has a very nice purport.

Prabhupada: Find out that. Kamam vavarsa parjanyah [SB 1.10.4]. Parjanyah…

Pradyumna: Oh, I know.

Prabhupada: I’ve touched the slaughterhouse, brothel…

Hari-sauri: I just finished reading that Perfection of Yoga. It’s an amazing book. Each chapter gradually leads more and more to the ultimate goal.

Prabhupada: They were my beginning speeches in your country, in America. I was daily speaking in… So Hayagriva has edited. Hm. What is the purport?

Pradyumna: “The basic principle of economic development is centered on land and cows.”

Prabhupada: That idea I’m still maintaining. Yes.

Pradyumna: “The necessities of human society are food grains, fruits, milk, minerals, clothing, wood, etc. One requires all these items to fulfill the material needs of the body. Certainly one does not require flesh and fish or iron tools and machinery. During the regime of Maharaja Yudhisthira, all over the world there were regulated rainfalls. Rainfalls are not in the control of the human being. The heavenly king Indradeva is the controller of rains, and he is the servant of the Lord. When the Lord is obeyed by the king and the people under the king’s administration, there are regulated rains from the horizon, and these rains are the causes of all varieties of production on the land. Not only do regulated rains help ample production of grains and fruits, but when they combine with astronomical influences there is ample production of valuable stones and pearls. Grains and vegetables can sumptuously feed a man and animals, and the fatty cow delivers enough milk to supply a man sumptuously with vigor and vitality.”

Prabhupada: Now Kirtanananda has sent so nice sweets.

Hari-sauri: And ghee.

Prabhupada: You have given something all other devotees?

Hari-sauri: Oh, yes.

Prabhupada: Give him some.

Hari-sauri: Palika hid them somewhere. I don’t know where they are. Palika hid them away so no one would take them. (laughs)

Prabhupada: All right then. Preparing first class.

Hari-sauri: Kuladri has a box.

Prabhupada: First class. And they have got enough milk. When I went there, all nice milk preparation. Ghee, sweet rice, these sweets. Ample. All variety. And they have ghee. Then prepare kachori, samosa. Such nice thing. And how friendly the cows. Just like family members. And they’re giving more economically. That’s practical. More milk. Then?

Pradyumna: “If there is enough milk, enough grains, enough fruit, enough cotton, enough silk, and enough jewels, then why do the people need cinemas, houses of prostitution, slaughterhouses, etc? What is the need of an artificial luxurious life of cinema, cars, radio, flesh, and hotels? Has this civilization produced anything but quarreling, individually and nationally? Has this civilization enhanced the cause of equality and fraternity by sending thousands of men into a hellish factory and warfields at the whims of a particular man? It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk.” It’s nice. You compare the warfield and the factory. I think people appreciate that. You compare the factory with the warfield.

Prabhupada: Yes. So whatever thought comes to me, I discuss as far as possible. Why these things are… Therefore I want to organize this farm project. Let there be ideal. And it is becoming ideal in America. People are coming even from the school, college, they are coming to see New Vrindaban. And there was section where our enemies, they are not disturbing. So they are appreciating. Still we are not thoroughly organized, but still they’re appreciating. They’ll appreciate. One day will come they’ll appreciate. And other parents, as they come and thank me, “Swamiji, it is our great fortune that…” Many parents came when I was in Los Angeles.

Hari-sauri: Yes. That’s becoming more organized now. They have a Parents for Krishna group now.

Prabhupada: Any sane man will appreciate. Why this father, mother, came to congratulate me? “Swamiji, you have done so…” It is Krsna’s desire that everyone be happy. They’ll take Krsna consciousness. Then?

Pradyumna: “It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk because their milk bags were fatty and the animals were joyful. Do they not require, therefore, proper protection for a joyful life by being fed with a sufficient quantity of grass in the field? Why should men kill cows for their selfish purposes? Why should men not be satisfied with grains, fruits and milk, which combined together can produce hundreds and thousands of palatable dishes? Why are there slaughterhouses all over the world to kill innocent animals? Maharaja Pariksit, grandson of Maharaja Yudhisthira, while touring his vast kingdom, saw a black man attempting to kill a cow. The king at once arrested the butcher and chastised him sufficiently. Should not a king or executive head protect the lives of the poor animals who are unable to defend themselves? Is this humanity? Are not the animals of a country citizens also? Then why are they allowed to be butchered in organized slaughterhouses? Are these the signs of equality, fraternity, and nonviolence? Therefore, in contrast with the modern, advanced, civilized form of government, an autocracy like Maharaja Yudhisthira’s is by far superior to a so-called democracy in which animals are killed and a man less than an animal is allowed to cast votes for another less-than-animal-man.”

Prabhupada: That’s all (laughing) we have said. You can do one thing. You have got nim tree?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: Take… I think you have got nim leaf dried?

Hari-sauri: Not since we’ve been in India. We’ve been using fresh nim leaves.

Prabhupada: You have got stock?

Hari-sauri: No. Not at the moment.

Prabhupada: That nim, if not in bara form, if you make some tablet, round. Something sticky.

Hari-sauri: (indistinct)

Prabhupada: Then I can take two pills in the morning. That will help. This nim, tickly, and bara is very good. But you people say that… (laughs)

Hari-sauri: The ghee’s not.

Prabhupada: Ghee’s not good, that I can understand. But without little ghee, we cannot eat at all.

Hari-sauri: There’s no harm for a small amount. There’s not much harm for…

Prabhupada: We have to take very little.

Hari-sauri: Wouldn’t it be better just to take some fresh leaf?

Prabhupada: Fresh leaf, how can I chew it?

Hari-sauri: Too bitter. Hm. I’ll get some dried. I can dry some on the roof tomorrow.

Prabhupada: Not dry. You have to take fresh leaf. But you have to make…

Hari-sauri: Just mash it. I can just mash it and make it. That would be all right.

Prabhupada: Or if you make two or three baras with nim, that is easy to take, and palatable. With chick pea flour, fresh nim leaf paste and equal quantity of chick pea flour. Just fry it.

Hari-sauri: Oh. Like those spinach pakoras.

Prabhupada: Yes. Arundhati was doing that in Vrndavana.

Hari-sauri: With nim leaf?

Prabhupada: Yes. She was doing nice.

Hari-sauri: You would like those for breakfast?

Prabhupada: Yes. That is good for the… So if Arundhati makes, she can come and tomorrow make one or two baras in the morning.

Hari-sauri: For your breakfast.

Prabhupada: So you are keeping your health all right?

Giriraja: Yes.

Prabhupada: All right.

Hari-sauri: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. (end)