Room Conversation Pradyumna: So today’s the first. (background discussion between Hari-sauri and others about domestic arrangements) [break] All the basic questions are asked, “What is life? What is this?” So many things. Prabhupada: “It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss.” This is the… The world is full of rascals and fools. So if you speak something sanity, they will take “Insanity.” That is the difficulty. Two things are there, one spirit, one matter. They ignore spirit completely. Although they cannot understand, cannot replace. Just like the body. The body is smashed, but what was the element keeping the body? This simple thing they cannot understand. There are two things, matter and spirit. Unfortunate. When we speak of spirit, they take it as brainwash. So fool. So you can take it so long I am resting. [break] …correctly. Then the diksa-guru (microphone moving). If you like… Then he is diksa-guru. Then guru. So siksa-guru becomes diksa-guru. But guru means one who knows the science of Krsna and teaches properly. That’s all. Guest (1): Are you knowing people take diksa from many gurus? Prabhupada: No, diksa-guru is one. But siksa-guru can be many. Guest (1): But suppose diksa gurus or people take one mantra from one guru and other one… Prabhupada: Then you have not selected guru. You have selected some rascal. Guru can be…, cannot be different. Guru means one who knows the science of Krsna. Yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. Anyone who knows the science… So suppose if you want to become medical man, you must go to a qualified medical man to learn. And if you go to a panwala, what he’ll teach you? That is your mistake. Guru cannot be different. Guru is one, one who knows the science of Krsna. If he does not know, then he is not guru. Why should you go there? Guest (1): How should we know that he knows about Krsna? Prabhupada: That requires your fortune. Little intelligence. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, ei rupe brahmanda bhramite kona bhagyavan jiva [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. That intelligence is for the most fortunate person. That is not ordinary thing. But guru means who knows the science of Krsna. If you go to a bogus man, that is your misfortune. So this is the description of guru, yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya, Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s statement. kiba vipra kiba nyasi sudra kene naya yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128] It doesn’t matter whether he is a sannyasi or grhastha or a brahmana or sudra. It doesn’t matter. If he knows the science of Krsna, then he remains guru. Guest (1): Science of Krsna. If he knows about Bhagavatam, Bhagavad-gita, or anything else… Prabhupada: To know about Krsna. It is not also difficult. Science of Krsna is there, Bhagavad-gita. Krsna speaks Himself. So to know the science of Krsna is also not difficult. But because we are unfortunate, we go to rascal, and they interpret Bhagavad-gita in a rascaldom way, and we are missing. So you should be very careful not to go to a rascal. Then your mission will be successful. If you want to purchase gold, you must go to a shop where actually gold is purchased, gold. If you do not know, then you’ll be cheated. That is not also very difficult. That I have repeatedly said. Those who are interpreting in their own way, Bhagavad-gita, he’s a rascal; he’s not guru. (loud kirtana in background) As soon as he says an interpretation, “I think like this,” you reject that. Why should we think like that? You should preach what Krsna says. Then you are right. Why should you say something which Krsna does not say? Then you are misguided. He does not know Krsna. He’s not krsna-tattva-vetta. So he’s cheating. That is going on. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66], and these rascals say, “It is not to Krsna person.” So he’s a rascal. He’s taking Krsna’s book and preaching against it. So what will be benefit if you go to such a rascal? Therefore there is no difference between siksa-guru and diksa-guru because if he’s actually guru, he’ll not say anything which Krsna has not spoken. Yare dekha tare kaha ‘krsna’-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128] So guru is that. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, amara ajnaya guru hana tara’ ei desa: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] “You become a guru.” And what is the function of the guru? Yare dekha tare kaha ‘krsna’-upadesa. That is there. You haven’t got to manufacture any instruction. Whatever is said in the Bhagavad-gita, you say. You try to convince him with logic, with philosophy, with your knowledge, same thing, not philosophy. That is intelligence. And suppose Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Before that, Krsna has described everything, why you should surrender to Krsna. At last He says, “You surrender to Me.” So there is no difficulty. Immediately Krsna does not say, “You surrender to Me.” But after describing everything— karma-yoga, jnana-yoga, dhyana-yoga, so many things, politics, sociology, religion, everything—at last He says that “This is the most confidential part. You surrender unto Me.” So one who has not surrendered to Krsna, how he can become guru? He’s a cheater. Yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. One who has surrendered to Krsna, he’s actually jnanavan. And this jnanavan is possible after many, many births; not so easily, to surrender to Krsna. But if he’s there, such a person—vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah [Bg. 7.19]—he is mahatma. That is mahatma, not by stamping, anyone, a person, can become mahatma. This is the symptom of mahatma, one who has surrendered to Krsna fully. Sa mahatma sudurlabhah. So that is guru, mahatma, who knows vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. Such mahatma is guru. Mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritah, bhajanty ananya-manasah [Bg. 9.13] The guru has no other business than krsna-bhajana. So that you have to see. You have to learn. You have to appreciate with persons who are actually engaged in krsna-bhajana. Then you’ll understand. Adau sraddha tatah sadhu-sangah. Sadhu means bhajate mam ananya-bhak sadhur eva sa mantavyah [Bg. 9.30]. He’s sadhu. Who? Who has no other business than Krsna. Mix with such sadhu who are actually executing krsna-bhajana. Adau sraddha tatah sadhu-sangah. This is the description of the sadhu. Bhajate mam ananya-bhak sadhur eva sa mantavyah [Bg. 9.30]. These things are there. There is no question of being misled. But if you purposefully mislead yourself, who can check? In the beginning you may commit some mistake, but when you study Bhagavad-gita—who is sadhu, who is mahatma, who is guru—then why shall we make, commit mistake again? If you have done mistake—you have gone to a rascal who is not Krsna conscious—then when you read Bhagavad-gita, you can understand. Why you are misled? Why you should be misled? If it is written on the road, “Keep to the left,” why should you be misled and go to the right? Go to the left. Then you are not misled. So here it is said, mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritah [Bg. 9.13]. A mahatma means who is always engaged in Krsna consciousness. Why do you accept somebody as mahatma who does not speak about Krsna? Then you are misleading yourself. Sa mahatma sudurlabhah. Vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. Everything, direction, is there. Why you create your own mahatma? If you want to be cheated, who can check you? That is your fault. In Bhagavad-gita, it is clearly said, bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma… [Bg. 7.19] That is mahatma. Mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritah, bhajanty ananya-manasah [Bg. 9.13]. Sadhur… Api cet suduracaro bhajate mam ananya-bhak. He’s mahatma. He’s sadhu. We shall go to him. Why shall we go to a rascal? Simple directions. So if you are misled, if you are cheated, whose fault it is? But if you want to be cheated, who can check? Even though somebody by mistake has gone to a rascal, the book is there. As soon as you find out, “Here is a rascal who does not know anything about Krsna, and I have come to him,” reject him. That is stated in the sastra. Gurur apy avaliptasya karyakaryam ajanantah parityago vidhiyate.(?) Even by mistake you have come to a rascal who does not know how to become guru, you can reject him. Why should you stick to him? Reject him. And by mistake I have come to rascal. Why shall I continue to accept him as guru? Canakya Pandita said, tyaja durjana-samsargam bhaja sadhu-samagamam: “Give up all rascals. Associate with sadhus.” If you do not do that, that is your fault. Tyaja durjana-samsargam bhaja sadhu-samagamam. We have to mix with sadhu. Sadhu means who are twenty-four-hours engaged in Krsna’s service. Things are there. Why should you mix with asadhu? Then how can you understand? Adau sraddha tatah sadhu-sangah. If you have got little faith, then next business is to associate with sadhus. Guest (2): Daily how many times you’ll utter the names of Lord Krsna? Prabhupada: Twenty-four hours. Kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. adi 17.31] There is no question of “How many times?” But if you have got other business, make some minimum quantity. Guest (2): Minimum? Prabhupada: Quantity. Minimum number. Satsvarupa: If you can’t chant all day—you have other business—at least make a quota and chant that every day. In our… Prabhupada’s disciples, we promise to chant at least sixteen rounds on the beads, japa-mala, every day. One round is 108 mantras. Guest (2): Sixteen rounds. Satsvarupa: Yes. Sixteen of those rounds at least. Prabhupada: It comes to twenty-five thousand. So Haridasa Thakura was chanting three lakhs. That is not possible. Twenty-five thousand minimum. Now you can increase as much as you like. Guest (3): Is there a difference between Rama and Krsna? Prabhupada: No difference. Rama is Bhagavan. Krsna is Bhagavan. Ramadi-murtisu. Bhagavan has got many incarnations: Nrsimhadeva, Varahadeva, Rama, Rama, Parasurama, Balarama, Dasarathi Rama. So whomever you like, you can worship. (pause) Guest (5): Should you count every day how much you do japa? Satsvarupa: Should you count every day how much japa you do? Prabhupada: That is… He’s doing at least sixteen times. Guest (4): No, suppose if we don’t count? Prabhupada: No, the mala is counting. Guest (4): No. Suppose if we don’t follow it, it’s not beneficial? Prabhupada: Beneficial, but you must fill up your promise, vow, that “I shall chant.” Drdha-vrata. First be drdha-vrata. If your chanting is not finished, you should give up your sleeping. You must try to finish. That is called drdha-vrata. So whatever promise, quota—“I must finish it.” Stop all other business. That is called drdha-vrata. Bhajante mam drdha-vratah. Find out this verse, mahatmanas tu mam partha [Bg. 9.13]. No, then satatam kirtayanto mam [Bg. 9.14]. Satsvarupa: Not mahatmanas? Next one. Satatam kirtayanto mam yatantas ca drdha-vratah [Bg. 9.14]. Prabhupada: Drdha-vrata. If you have no drdha-vrata, (laughing) that is no vow. So that drdha-vrata means you must promise that “I shall chant at least, minimum, so many times.” That is called drdha-vrata. Satsvarupa: “With determination.” Prabhupada: With determination. Otherwise, satatam kirtayanto mam [Bg. 9.14]. Satatam means twenty-four hours. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. adi 17.31]. Harer nama harer nama harer nama eva kevalam [Adi 17.21]. But that we cannot do. Therefore to keep drdha-vrata, we have fixed up a certain quantity. Chant that. Sankhya-purvaka-nama-gana-natibhih kalavasani-krtau. About the Gosvamis—sankhya-purvaka: “So many times.” Not only chanting, also offering obeisances. Sankhya-purvaka-nama-gana-natibhih. Nati means pranati. “I shall offer obeisances hundred times.” Gosvamis, they used to do that. Still in Radha-kunda, Vrndavana, you’ll see many devotees. They offer, counting, flat, so many times. So we have to take some labor. It is not so easy thing that you realize (chuckling) God so easily. Sankhya-purvaka-nama-gana-natibhih kalavasani-krtau. The valuable time of human life should be utilized only for cultivating Krsna consciousness. That is perfect. No other business. Sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. That is sarva-dharman. But if you cannot do that, all right, make minimum: “So many times I shall chant. So many times I shall offer obeisances.” Make some drdha-vrata. Then gradually it will be successful. Guest (5): (Bengali) Prabhupada: Yes. Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna—twenty-four hours. Japa-tapa. Tapasya. Tapo divyam putraka yena suddhyed sattvam. Japa means tapa, tapasya. And that is drdha-vrata. Tapasa brahmacaryena [SB 6.1.13]. Tapasya begins with brahmacarya. There is no tapasya, there is no brahmacarya, there is no drdha-vrata, there is no understanding, and they are becoming guru. Just see these Europeans, Americans. Their life beginning was meat-eating. And they have given up everything. This is tapasya. And we shall eat everything, do everything… Yato mata tato patha. “Whatever I like, I do, and still a devotee.” What is this nonsense? Jaya. Guest (6): Visvasa first, faith strong. Prabhupada: No, where is faith if we do not execute tapasya? Where is faith? Visvasa sudrdha niscaya. That is visvasa, the same thing. This is visvasa: “Krsna said this; I shall do.” This is visvasa. And if you do not do anything, what Krsna says, where is visvasa? There is no visvasa. Krsna says, satatam kirtayanto mam: [Bg. 9.14] “Anyone who is chanting Me, Hare Krsna…” So Krsna says; I must do it. That is visvasa. If you do not do that, where is visvasa? What do you mean by visvasa? Visvasa means sudrdha niscaya. “Yes, Krsna has said. I shall do.” That is visvasa. If you have no faith in the words of Krsna, where is your visvasa? What do you mean by visvasa? Hm? Guest (6): Bhagavan’s servant. Prabhupada: Bhagavan is your servant. Whatever you like, you can do, and He’ll serve you. You’ll not serve Him. He will serve you. Is that visvasa? “Whatever nonsense I do, Krsna will support.” Is that visvasa? Visvasa means “What Krsna says, I shall do.” That is visvasa. That has been impressed at the modern age, that “Whatever I do, Krsna will accept it.” Is it not? Do you mean visvasa means this, that “Whatever nonsense you do, Krsna will accept”? Do you mean visvasa means this? Then what is visvasa? Explain. “Whatever Krsna says, I will do,” that is visvasa. Or “Whatever nonsense I do, Krsna will favor”? Which one visvasa? What do you mean…? Huh? Guest (6): There is one pervading Supreme Soul. Prabhupada: What is that pervading? What do you mean by that? Plain explain. What do you mean by visvasa? Explain. Guest (6): Faith in God. Prabhupada: Faith in God. Then hear what God says. That is… I am speaking that “What Krsna says, you do it.” That is visvasa. And if you do otherwise, where is visvasa? Hm? Visvasa means… I say, “Mr. such and such, do this.” If you have faith in me, you will do this. That is visvasa. And if you do otherwise, where is your visvasa? You have no faith in me. Now people have degraded so much that they think, “This is visvasa. Anything I accept as God is God.” This visvasa is going on. “Any nonsen… [break] …pravartate, iti matva bhajante mam budha bhava-samanvitah. Is it not? So if you take this, that Krsna is the beginning of everything—iti matva—by understanding this, if anyone engages himself in krsna-bhakti, bhajante mam, that is bhakti. Budha bhava-samanvitah. He has come immediately to the bhava stage. Means he’s budhah. He is actual… He has actually understood the thing. So that is visvasa. In Caitanya-caritamrta it is said visvasa… Sraddha-sabde visvasa kahe sudrdha niscaya, krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya. Krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya. This is visvasa. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. I am thinking, “I have got so many other things. Simply why shall I surrender?” That is not visvasa. Visvasa means “Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam [Bg. 18.66]. I’ll accept.” Krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta. That is visvasa. Sudrdha niscaya. Sraddha-sabde visvasa kahe sudrdha niscaya, krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya. That is visvasa. That visvasa wanted, not that I manufacture something. It is useless. Moghasa mogha-karmano mogha-jnana vicetasah [Bg. 9.12]. That is hopeless. What Krsna says, if you believe firmly, then it is visvasa. Drdha-vrata. And execute, determination. Then you get the result. Sa mahatma sudurlabhah. Such mahatma is very rare. And nowadays mahatma means one who does not know anything about Krsna, speaks all nonsense. He is mahatma. “Because we stamp somebody, mahatma, therefore he is mahatma.” Find out this verse, mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim [Bg. 9.13]. Satsvarupa: mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritah bhajanty ananya-manaso jnatva bhutadim avyayam [Bg. 9.13] “O son of Prtha, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible.” Prabhupada: This is mahatma. Is there any purport? Satsvarupa: Yes. “In this verse the description of mahatma is clearly given. The first sign of the mahatma is that he is already situated in the divine nature. He is not under the control of material nature. And how is this effected? That is explained in the Seventh Chapter. One who surrenders unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna, at once becomes freed from the control of material nature. That is the qualification.” Prabhupada: Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti. Satsvarupa: “One can become free from the control of material nature as soon as he surrenders his soul to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the preliminary formula. Being marginal potency, as soon as the living entity is freed from the control of material nature, he is put under the guidance of the spiritual nature. The guidance of the spiritual nature is called daivim prakrtim, divine nature. So when one is promoted in that way by surrendering to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one attains to the stage of a great soul, mahatma. The mahatma does not divert his attention to anything outside Krsna because he knows perfectly well that Krsna is the original Supreme Person, the cause of all causes. There is no doubt about it. Such a mahatma or great soul develops through association with other mahatmas, pure devotees. Pure devotees are not even attracted by Krsna’s other features, such as the four-armed Maha-Visnu. They are simply attracted by the two-armed form of Krsna. Since they are not attracted to other features of Krsna, what to speak of the demigods, they are not concerned with any form of a demigod or of a human being. They only meditate upon Krsna in Krsna consciousness. They are always engaged in the unswerving service of the Lord in Krsna consciousness.” Prabhupada: Sa mahatma sudurlabhah. That is the… What do you think? What is your definition of mahatma? Guest (1): Gita said, vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah [Bg. 7.19] Prabhupada: Yes. Gita says, but what you say? Recently I went to Wardha, Mahatma Gandhi’s asrama. Nobody is there. And they are worshiping Mahatma’s lantern, and Mahatma’s cadara. Not a single picture of Krsna. (chuckles) There is not a single picture of Krsna. And here it is said, bhajate mam ananya-bhak. This is going on. So read Bhagavad-gita As It Is. Learn. Everything is there. Make your life successful. That is our proposal. Come here. We have developed this center in good quarter. Discuss Bhagavad-gita and try to do what Krsna says. Make your life perfect. (Hindi) We are misguided. Misguided… (Hindi) Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gita: “This mahatma; this is God; this is function; this you have to do.” Do it. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Four things anyone can do. A child can do. yoginam api sarvesam mad-gatenantar-atmana sraddhavan bhajate yo mam sa me yuktatamo matah [Bg. 6.47] First-class yogi—one who is thinking of Krsna. (Hindi) There is no difficulty. Take Bhagavan prasada; chant Bhagavan’s name; read Bhagavad-gita; try to understand. Very easy. What is the difficulty? Is there any difficulty? Hm? Do you think is there any difficulty? [break] …Hindi. Guest (7): (Hindi) Prabhupada: (Hindi) …asat-sanga-tyaga ei vaisnava-acara. You must give up the association of bad elements. And who is bad element? Asat eka stri-sangi krsna abhakta ara: One bad element is one who is too much attached to women, and the other bad element is who is not devotee of God. Give up their association. Then you will be steady. Mahat-sevam dvaram ahur vimukteh [SB 5.5.2] If you actually associate with mahatmas, so that will open your door of liberation. Mahat-sevam dvaram ahur vimuktes tamo-dvaram yositam sangi-sangam. Those who are too much materially attached, if you associate with them, then you are going in the darkest region, not liberation, but in the darkness. Adanta-gobhir visatam tamisram. Those who are too much to material enjoyment— they cannot control their senses—they’re going in the darkest region. Tamo-dvaram. Tamaso ma jyotir gamaya. This is Vedic instruction, “Don’t go to the darkness; go to the light.” Hare Krsna. Satsvarupa: There is prasadam being served now. Prabhupada: (Hindi) (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
January 31, 1977, Bhubaneshwar