Conversations Prabhupada: And this opening hospital, that is not Vedic civilization. Tamala Krsna: No. Prabhupada: That is Western idea. “Give him some relief.” Modern. Tamala Krsna: Most of the time, instead of relieving, they make things even more difficult. Prabhupada: Because they do not know. Nowadays they make experiment. Tamala Krsna: I got the feeling that that gentleman yesterday was experimenting… Prabhupada: Hm. Tamala Krsna: …or guessing. Have you read the book of Satsvarupa Maharaja? Prabhupada: No. You have read? Tamala Krsna: No. I was thinking I could read some portion of it to you if you would like to hear it. Or I could read some other book. Prabhupada: You can read his book. Tamala Krsna: Would you like to hear some of it? Prabhupada: Hm. Keep it there. [break] …is a Bengali common word. It is said, ksoprai kanana(?). Ksopra(?), that is like a coconut. Coconut pulp is within, and it is covered with a hard… What is called? Tamala Krsna: Shell. Prabhupada: …shell, and again covered with fiber. Tamala Krsna: Husk. Prabhupada: Yes. So these people are interested with the fiber, not with the pulp. So all discoveries of the modern education, they are ksoprai kanana(?). Tamala Krsna: That fiber is the least valuable part. Prabhupada: But they are discovering(?). Tamala Krsna: He gives a summary of this chapter. [break] Prabhupada: …objectionable. Tamala Krsna: Objectionable? I haven’t read it yet. Prabhupada: Yes. He advertised himself, he is only (indistinct). Tamala Krsna: Surabhi. Prabhupada: Hm. And neither he has mentioned his guru’s name nor others’ name, as if he is doing everything. His ambition is only… Yes. Not a single place, any other swamiji or swami, as if he is, it is his idea and he will supply money and everything, like that. And without any sanction of a committee he has come to pay whimsically. So everything will be done like that. There are so many mistakes. You read it. Here. Similarly, everything is being done, it is Surabhi Maharaja. Have you read already? Tamala Krsna: Yes. Prabhupada: He does not like to interfere with his guru. He is doing everything. Tamala Krsna: Maybe Giriraja should be called up. When they come, then we can read this article out loud. Says here, “Asked whether his city…” Prabhupada: Hm? Tamala Krsna: “Asked whether his city…” Prabhupada: “His city”? Tamala Krsna: Yeah. Prabhupada: What is that? “Asked…”? Tamala Krsna: Says, “Asked whether his city would not meet the same fate as Auroville…” It’s not his city. Prabhupada: He can say that he has taken sannyasa for his popularization?(?) (Surabhir Abhipalayantam enters, offers obeisances) Did you consult this article with others’ consultation or by whimsical joke? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: It could be… Prabhupada: This article… Surabhir Abhipalayantam: Yes. Prabhupada: Did you publish it by consulting your other colleagues, or whimsically you have published? Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada’s asking whether this article was published in consultation with other, with your Godbrothers, or how it came about that you got this article published. Surabhir Abhipalayantam: Well, it was in… I think he went to different newspapers, just like the Indian Express and this one, and they wanted to speak with him. Prabhupada: So such an important article, there are so many discrepancies, and you have published without consulting others? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: I haven’t seen it. Prabhupada: And your name is simply, “Swami…” There is no other name behind this plan? As if you are doing everything. You are maybe architect, but is that your plan? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: Well, we had that… We had the interview in the… And I very clearly mentioned all these things. Prabhupada: There is no mention of any other name, even your guru’s name. You are everything there. This is very bad. This is not at all my request(?). It is objectionable, very much objectionable. You have done a very wrong thing. Why did you not consult others before publishing? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: Well, we went with four devotees there, and I mentioned all these things, but I don’t know why he didn’t… Prabhupada: Where? There’s no mention, as if you are doing everything. Surabhir Abhipalayantam: The first thing he… Prabhupada: This article shows that you are doing everything, and they are asking, “your city”? They have asked. Is that your city? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: But they have concocted that, because this was not how the interview was… Prabhupada: Concocted, no. It is published. You have published a very great objectionable article without consulting others. Now you should not do anything without consulting others. I cannot allow this. Surabhir Abhipalayantam: My intention was only to… Prabhupada: No intention. Simply your name, you are everything, that’s all. This is not well(?). You do not mention even your guru’s name. Surabhir Abhipalayantam: We gave him a paper with all the things they had to put in there, very… Prabhupada: And they have deleted your guru’s name and others’ name, and they have intentionally said, “your city,” as if you are doing everything, you are getting money. How is this? You again protest that “I gave you. Why you have published this? Again you have…” Give them protest. Surabhir Abhipalayantam: Yes, I will, Srila Prabhupada. I will immediately write them. Because I… Prabhupada: And if you have given such article to others, immediately stop it. Surabhir Abhipalayantam: No, we don’t have in others. We just had an interview with them, and they put it all like this. Prabhupada: How they can do? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: I don’t know. Prabhupada: Where is that original article? Tamala Krsna: Do you have a copy of the original article that you gave? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: Yes. I have… Prabhupada: Is there name, others’ name, in your original article? Where is that original article? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: Well, we have given them a booklet which… Prabhupada: Again “booklet.” You are publishing article. What is the use of booklet? Why they will take care of a booklet? Take articles and… They have given, asked you, “your city.” Where is that article? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: I can’t explain it. Tamala Krsna: “Asked whether his city would not meet the same fate as Auroville…” Prabhupada: “His city.” Your city. Tamala Krsna: “…Swami said…” Surabhir Abhipalayantam: Yeah, I never said this to him. We didn’t even talk about city. Prabhupada: So how is that, without your saying, they are publishing? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: He did it in the same way as the other… Prabhupada: Your photograph is there. That is also, they have done? Or you have given your photograph? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: They took a picture. I have only given them this picture and this picture. Prabhupada: Not a single man’s name is there. “The Swami,” your photograph… Nothing. Surabhir Abhipalayantam: We will go immediately. I will go today, immediately. Prabhupada: But what is published, that is already damage. Tamala Krsna: Sometimes they will retract it. Prabhupada: Therefore they asked you, “your city,” “his city,” “will build a center, fantastic…” Tamala Krsna: Yeah, no one’s going to give it any credence. Prabhupada: It is most objectionable article. So you are doing things very, full independently. This is not very good. The impression will be that “Surabhi Swami has come to construct this city. He is cheating,” like that, as if everything doing, you are the all and all. That’s… No other. And “the temple will be Krsna.” Just show him, “the temple of Krsna.” You do not know what is, the temple will be? Clearly mentioned. They have also manufactured? They have manufactured? What is this? Tamala Krsna: “The center of the planetarium will be the temple of Krsna.” Prabhupada: Just see. It is their manufacture? Tamala Krsna: “The planetarium and temple alone will be estimated to cost rupees seventy crores.” Prabhupada: That is another thing. But it is not going to be Krsna’s temple. Tamala Krsna: No, that’s the point. Prabhupada: And they have manufactured this? Tamala Krsna: It says here, “The whole city is expected to… The temple… The planetarium will be ready in three years.” But how is that possible to be built…? And that “The whole city will be done in ten years.” Says here, “A Vedic city with fifty thousand brahmanas, ksatriyas, vaisyas and sudras living around a Krsna temple.” Prabhupada: So they have criticized that “Your city, there will be forty…,” “Aurobindo…” You have seen it? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: No. Tamala Krsna: “Asked whether his city would not meet the same fate as Auroville…” Prabhupada: That… Tamala Krsna: “It was started nine years ago near Pondicherry with the same target of fifty thousand but has still a population of only four hundred, mostly foreigners.” In other words, this is… The idea is that just as Auroville is a farce, any one of us, we’re also farcical. Prabhupada: Yes. That is… It is very good farce. That is the… Yes. Tamala Krsna: Yes, that’s the implication. Prabhupada: Yes. Tamala Krsna: It’s a farce. There’s no… From what I can see here, there’s no mention in the whole thing… It never mentions “International Society for Krishna Consciousness.” It never mentions “Founder-Acarya His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami.” It doesn’t even mention… Prabhupada: No. Tamala Krsna: “…Hare Krishna Movement.” In one place it says, “Hare Krishna followers,” but it never says, “the Hare Krishna movement.” No one knows what ISKCON is. In India they don’t know. Prabhupada: And your name is mentioned in every line, your photograph, as if you are doing everything. Tamala Krsna: There’s another article in here about the Bhaktivedanta Institute. Have you seen it? Prabhupada: No. Tamala Krsna: It appears just below this article. “ISKCON Branch in City from October, by a staff reporter. A branch of the Bhaktivedanta Institute, the center for advanced learning and research of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, ISKCON, based in Washington, D.C., is scheduled to be opened in October at Hare Krishna Land in Juhu. This was stated by Dr. Thoudam Damodara Singh in Bombay on Tuesday. Dr. Singh, who is in charge of the arrangements for the opening, told a press conference that the Institute presents in a modern format the higher sciences of the ancient Vedantic literatures. In Bombay, Dr. Singh said, the Institute will publish scientific articles, monographs, and the journal ‘Sa-vijnanam, Scientific Knowledge,’ regularly.” That’s the whole article. Again Your Divine Grace’s name is not mentioned. Of course, it says, “Bhaktivedanta Institute,” but still, it’s not… Yeah, it was a very good opportunity that we could present our program, but somehow it… Where did they get these figures of “three years”and “ten years”? I mean, how could they have just concocted “three years” and “ten years” unless you told them? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: I… Tamala Krsna: But how did they get these figures? How does someone manufacture that we will spend seventy crores in three years? (pause) It seems like they have tricked you. You must have made a statement, and they… Surabhir Abhipalayantam: They fabricated. That’s the whole thing. Prabhupada: How they can fabricate in their own way? From… (pause) Rather, they have criticized that “This fantastic thing, it is going to be like Aurobindo’s city, list of fifty thousand, 404 acres.” They are not taking it very seriously. Otherwise why he has remarked? Indirectly he has said, “This man is speaking like lunatic.” They are not taking very seriously. That very remark shows that “It is going to be meet the same fate.” So many fantastic ideas. Tamala Krsna: Did you see that article yesterday, Srila Prabhupada? Prabhupada: Hm? Tamala Krsna: Did you see that article yesterday? Prabhupada: What is that? Tamala Krsna: There’s an article in the Times of India yesterday about foreign travel as a center to expand.(?) Prabhupada: There Hare Krishna movement is nice. Tamala Krsna: Yeah, it says that “The Hare Krishna movement is responsible for promoting knowledge of India and India’s culture abroad.” I mean, it is farce, because according to this article, we have to now come up with seventy crores of rupees and spend seventy crores in three years. So we cannot come up with seventy crores of rupees. Neither anyone could build that quickly. I mean, it’s a farce. How could anyone build a temple of that proportion, a planetarium of that size, in three years’ time. I mean, anybody who knows about building will know. We can’t even build this building in three years. Prabhupada: It will be fantastical. Therefore they, “It is going to meet the same fate.” (pause) You do not know what is the temple will be? You do not know? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: Hm? Prabhupada: That temple, what will be the Deity, you do not know? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: I mentioned… We gave them the paper with all the information on it. Prabhupada: Eh? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: They had been given a paper with all the names of the Deities on it. Prabhupada: What is that Deity? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: Panca-tattva, Lord Caitanya. Prabhupada: Yes. These are… “Krsna.” Tamala Krsna: Not Krsna. Prabhupada: Eh? Tamala Krsna: Krsna not the central Deity. Prabhupada: Everything is spoiled. They have given so much coverage, and everything has been farce. Because, don’t mind, you wanted to become famous—that is the intention—therefore it has become a farce. The inner intention was that you want to be famous. Frankly. Therefore it has become farce. Everything ludicrous, farce. And “In three years they will build this temple and, and…” You have read that article? Giriraja: No. Prabhupada: Now immediately a vote should be formed. You cannot do independently. That will not be allowed, anything. In Bengali there is a word, pance mili kare karya, hari duhkhi nahi lasa(?): “If you do something, combined together, five men, then whether you are defeated or you are victorious, there is nothing to be shameful.” Hari duhkhi nahi lasa. So you are doing everything independent. We do not like to interfere with your business. You become angry. So that should be stopped. You cannot be allowed. You’ll be (indistinct). It has no meaning. (pause) What is that? Tamala Krsna: This is a… I don’t know if… You gave this to the press? This was given to the press. “Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. ISKCON Candrodaya City at Sridhama Mayapura.” Prabhupada: What is this? Not from our letter given? Tamala Krsna: It says, “The birthplace of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu in the district Nadia, prepared under the direction of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and by his disciples, His Holiness Surabhir Abhipalayantam Swami, ISKCON Mayapura Project architect and director of construction; His Holiness Jayapataka Swami, ISKCON Mayapura project president and Governing Body Commissioner; Sri Patita Pavana dasa Brahmacari, Bhakti Sastri, ISKCON Mayapura; and the editors of Back to Godhead magazine, ISKCON Press, Los Angeles, California.” Prabhupada: Perfect article. Tamala Krsna: “Patita Pavana…” And it says also, “…the editors of Back to Godhead magazine, ISKCON Press, Los Angeles, California.” Surabhir Abhipalayantam: (indistinct) Tamala Krsna: These are four articles. “Part One: A Description of the Holiness of Sridhama Mayapura.” Surabhir Abhipalayantam: It was taken from Back to Godhead. Prabhupada: Hm? Tamala Krsna: Taken from Back to Godhead. This is an article from Back to Godhead. Who wrote it? Nitai? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: Nitai did. Prabhupada: Who wrote? Tamala Krsna: Nitai. This is an article previously published in Back to Godhead, written by Nitai a couple years ago. “Part Two: A General Description of ISKCON’s Spiritual City in Mayapura. A Short History of ISKCON Mayapura.” It gives a description of their history. “When one of the first American devotees of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, ISKCON, heard in 1970 from the Society’s Founder-Acarya, His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada…” Prabhupada: Everywhere there is founder-acarya’s name, but not a single line… Tamala Krsna: Right. Prabhupada: So they have purposefully avoided and given “His Holiness”? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: I all the time insisted on this, that it has to be written down… Prabhupada: Your photograph and your name and nothing else. Tamala Krsna: I mean, one point is this: When you hold a press conference you don’t give them a fifty-page booklet and expect that they’re going to read any of it. They’re not going to read any of it. When you hold a press conference you give one sheet, and on that sheet everything is there in order of importance. Nobody ever gives this in a press conference. This is a book. Prabhupada: No, no… Tamala Krsna: They don’t have the time to read. I mean, that’s why they won’t publish any of this. This is good, but it… Prabhupada: No, no, where is mentioned that Surabhi Swami was…? His name? How they have picked up your name and your photograph as everything? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: Well, I usually have to go these places. And the man, he wanted to see me the night before, so I went to Times of India, and I was… Tamala Krsna: Why would he want to see you? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: I don’t know. So I came on invitation, and then I just sat down to explain all the things that were written in the book. Prabhupada: I don’t think there is any name mentioned, presented, in these articles. Tamala Krsna: In these? Prabhupada: No. Tamala Krsna: No. Prabhupada: So how you came in front? Surabhir Abhipalayantam: Well, Patita, he was explaining about the project we were doing in Bombay. He was setting it up and working on it. Prabhupada: But his not there. Your name is there. Your photograph. Tamala Krsna: Even on the project in Bombay your name is given there, but Prabhupada’s name is not given there. Now, why should your name become prominent in regards to the Bombay project? Now, you said he was describing what we were doing in Bombay, so therefore he wanted to meet you. So why should he want to…? If anybody describes about this Bombay project, they should want to meet Prabhupada. (pause) There’s nothing objectionable in this report, but they’re not going to use this report. Prabhupada: Hm? Tamala Krsna: There’s nothing objectionable in here, but it should be understood… Prabhupada: No, no, that is not… It is written, “The Founder-Acarya,” written clearly. Tamala Krsna: Yes, clearly. Prabhupada: But how is that, they have avoided everything else? “Surabhi Swami is doing. It is his city.” They’re asking, “his city.” And where is such incidence that any project, without mentioning the project makers, the architect’s name… Where is that incidence, that “Here is the architect, architect, architect”? Nobody finds. Tamala Krsna: You look at any project in Bombay that’s coming up, or anywhere in India. They’ll always mention who is going to use the building or who is…, who paid for it. Hardly ever… If anything, the architect’s name is mentioned in one line, “designed by so and so.” But the architect never holds the press conference. That’s another… I mean, I never heard of an architect holding a press conference. Neither I have heard the architect doing so many of the other things which the architect is doing. That, I think, is the essential thing. Whenever Bhavananda Maharaja… Prabhupada: Anyway, you form immediately joint committee. You cannot do independently. That is not possible. Whatever is done is done. Now, henceforward, you should be guarded. You, you published that article? Patita-pavana: What is that? Prabhupada: The Times of India? Patita-pavana: Pardon me, Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada: You published that article? Patita-pavana: The types? Prabhupada: Times of India. Patita-pavana: This? Prabhupada: Yes. Patita-pavana: Well, we went down there together and were interviewed by a… Prabhupada: Eh? Patita-pavana: We went down together. We were interviewed by the reporter there. Prabhupada: So what kind of interview, that Saurabha is everything? Architect? Architect is everything? Patita-pavana: This is a great mistake. Surabhi Maharaja did not want that. He specifically said, and we also told him, “You must put this, ‘Founder-Acarya His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.’ ” He said it definitely, I said it, and I wrote it down. And I wrote it down, I think, two places for him. And then it was also written down on our release, “disciples of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.” Prabhupada: So how is that, nobody’s name is there, only Saurabha’s? And they have mentioned, “his city.” Patita-pavana: Oh, no. That is not good. Tamala Krsna: They mentioned that “Will his city be like Auroville?” And the answer’s given, “No, it won’t.” Patita-pavana: The answer’s good, but the question’s not. Tamala Krsna: No, the answer’s not good either ’cause it’s not his city. If you answer that question at all, it means that you accept that it’s your city. Patita-pavana: Yeah, but they never asked him like that. This is simply this man’s journalism. Tamala Krsna: But Prabhupada’s point is that everything has been printed. Whether they asked you or didn’t ask you, now it’s there in print and it can’t be retracted. Patita-pavana: We could also have them write some article. I know the chief reporter there. Prabhupada: Therefore I say you have done independently, whimsically. This is… This is to be stopped. You are acting too independent. Tamala Krsna: I’d just like a point of clarification, ’cause I don’t understand. What exactly is your engagement? I see that you’re traveling all over India. What exactly are you going…? Has Prabhupada told you to travel like this continuously, all over…? Patita-pavana: No, he told me to go South India and find some panditas. Tamala Krsna: And now you’re planning to go to Delhi. Patita-pavana: No, no, Surabhi Maharaja has asked me to do some press releases for the newspapers. Prabhupada: So Surabhi Maharaja has asked. So you are conducted by Surabhi Maharaja. Patita-pavana: Yes, Prabhupada. At least I’m trying. If I have acted untimely, I… Prabhupada: And this is the result. This is the result, this disastrous article. You do independently when you like under the direction of Surabhi Maharaja and create disaster. Patita-pavana: Well, he asked me to go down there. [break] (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
April 19, 1977, Bombay